Suggestions for high-quality trailer brake lines?

[Sunbeam]

Hi folks,

Well, a depressing sight greeted me today when I was working on the boat. I moved it around a bit in storage, and noticed something hanging down under the trailer...? Turns out it was one of the (surge/disc) brake lines. It had come unscrewed from one of the brake calipers. Boo!

But then, just to put the cherry on top, I started looking at the rest of the brake lines and they are all completely cracked. This surprises me somewhat as they were brand new in May 2012 and have literally never seen sunlight or salt water. When I'm trailering they are under the boat; I store the boat indoors; and when I do cruises I store the trailer indoors. I've also never launched in salt water. Obviously at this point the thing to do is replace them, but I never would have thought they'd have deteriorated this quickly (?). They were all nicely secured so not flapping around when driving or etc. The cracks run across perpendicular to the hose, and are not just at curves, but on straight runs too.

The "funny" thing is that not too long after I had all the work done, I had a problem with both the first section of line (installer error that I had to correct) and the actuator (died after a couple of weeks). They were both Tie Down. I was in the middle of Montana and couldn't get the "good" flexible/rubber trailer brake lines, so used what I could get, which was metal brake line. I've kept an eye on it and always was thinking I should replace that to be up to the standard of the other lines. Well, ha, because that section still looks perfect.

So, I don't think I'll be getting Tie Down brake lines again. Not only did both the TD actuator and now the brake lines fail, but I didn't find their customer service to be too inspiring either (when I had the actuator problem two weeks in).

So... is there a "best" brake line brand/material? I won't always be in fresh water, so want an "all water" solution. No problem paying for quality.

Thanks for suggestions. I mentioned it up above but I have surge brakes and Kodiak discs, tandem axle.

[BrentB]

Do you think moisture is in the fluid?
http://www.amazon.com/Brake-Fluid-Tester-calibrated-fluids/dp/B005HVG4GQ

Champion has SS lines and kits
https://www.championtrailers.com/

[Sunbeam]

I don't know if moisture is in the fluid. I've never had a leak, so no reason to think so. I think I'll change when I change the lines since its hygroscopic and 3-1/2 years old. Were you thinking that moisture in the brake lines would somehow cause the outer rubber to crack (yet with no brake fluid leak)? By the way, the trailer has not been in below freezing weather in the past couple of years.

The cracks look like the type of cracks we'd see in a lot of the hoses on Asian built boats - the rubber just didn't seem to hold up. My guess is this is the same type of thing. Just cruddy rubber.

I looked around and see Kodiak, Titan, and Demco kits that look similar (rubber hoses with metal fittings). Kodiak suggests that the stainless wrapped rubber lines can cause wearing when dirt (or salt?) gets under the stainless braid (this is in the text promoting their un-braid-covered rubber lines).

I'll research around, but I just wondered if anyone knew of a premium brand, since it's not something I'm super well versed in and C-Brats do trailer a lot. So is there a "Timken bearings" of the brake line world? I wouldn't mind a bit if the next ones last longer than 3-1/2 stored-indoors years!

[BrentB]

Some what
DOT 3 and 4 brake fluids are hygroscopic, which means they absorb moisture even inside an otherwise sealed brake system.

Also our auto shop checks it and antifreeze with oil changes.

I didnt know how common moisture is performed.

[localboy]

Rubber lines cracking as you describe is usually from age, UV light etc. The rubber is breaking down. Lots of "made in China" rubber parts that I've seen do this. I've switched over to SS braided lines on all my VWs brake systems. Don't see why a boat trailer would be any different. I also don't use rubber lines anywhere in my home any more either. For the same reasons. I spend a little more on braided SS lines (faucets, toilets etc) and sleep better.

http://www.easternmarine.com/deemaxx-24in-stainless-steel-trailer-brake-hose-dot-ssfl-24

FInd your length/fitting size and pay a little more.

[Will-C]

Wow a brake line unscrewed from the caliper? I don't think I've ever seen that happen. Seriously sounds like some sort of sabotage.
D.D.

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

[Sunbeam]

Hi Bob,

I'm not sure which photos you are looking at, but many of the trailer photos in my album are of the trailer as-bought. It was a bit ragged, had a single set of drum brakes, brake lines blowing in the breeze, trashed bunks, rusted actuator, etc.

Here is how it went: The boat was just what I was looking for, relatively un-modified, stored indoors, low hours. BUT, the trailer had been stored outdoors, unused and un-maintained. I had the trailer gone through tip to tail when I first bought the boat. Pretty much made it a new trailer, except for the frame. I can do boat work but at the time was not experienced in trailer work, plus it was far away from home, so... why not let the experts do it (for once!).

Well, as I found out on my cross-country trip, they were not experts. I pretty much had to re-do everything at various "unplanned" stops. There were dozens of problems. I distinctly remember (and photographed), that as they had finished the new brakes (with all flexible lines the whole way back), I questioned how they had run the line coming off the solenoid/actuator in a sharp 90º bend, plus into an unprotected hole. They made a big deal about how it was fine, I should let them do their job, etc. etc.

Well one of the weird problems (there were many!) turned out to be that apparently a "flap" of brake line lining (or whatever it is) had happened right at that bend and it was messing with the brakes. This was in Missoula, so not exactly a ton of boat shops around. So I got the steel section locally and we tied it into the flexible lines. There is around 6' or so of steel line. Everything is is still the flexible line. I wasn't going to run the steel line unseen into the frame like the other line had been, so ran it along the top through some guides (all chafe protected with zip tied on chafe protection and etc.). Ironically, it's in fine shape and the "good" flexible lines are all deteriorated. That was the ONE part of the "professional" rebuild that I had not re-done, and I was just thinking about that, and how I should go through it before I trailer this spring. Well I guess my hunch was correct....

So now I'll be replacing the brake lines (myself!), and in the process will replace the fluid, and a few other things to remove all traces of those professionals (not that there aren't true professionals - these just weren't them). It will give me an excuse to buy a brake bleeder I've had my eye on

So now my mission is to learn about the options in brake lines and choose the best ones for my application. I had chosen the Kodiak brakes they put on, but just went with their recommendation on brake lines (Tie Down flexible).

[NewMoon]

When I replaced 15-year-old drums with discs two years ago, I did brake lines too. Thermo-plastic brake lines from Pacific Trailers (the trailer's manufactrurer).

http://www.pacifictrailers.com/Thermo-Plastic-Trailer-Brake-Lines/

Very easy to install, using a bunch of heavy-duty zip ties to hold in place. So far, after nearly 10K miles towing the 12K lb trailer, they seem perfect.

[Marco Flamingo]

Two days after I install Tie Down brand brake lines I find out that they don't last? Great.

Here is what I put on.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YMZYG2M?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

The kit didn't come with enough zip ties for my tastes, but those are cheap. Maybe I should buy a second kit and carry a spare in the tow vehicle.

I thought about going to Nebar in Ballard and having the lines custom made, but the $70 kit fit almost perfect. The mainline from the actuator was 3 feet too long for my trailer. That was handled by running past the axle and returning (with more zip ties).

I suppose that I could Armor All the brake lines for UV protection, although I've always been skeptical about the Armor All claims. It does makes old rubber look pretty. Not sure it does much else.

Mark

[AstoriaDave]

Sunbeam, Googling seems to suggest PVA or EPDM for flexible brake hose. The cracking you describe is completely out of spec for brake hose. Yup, those guys were dolts.

[BrentB]

Are specs printed on the old hoses?

Maybe it is a supplier issue

[colbysmith]

Replace them with wires and electric brakes. No more corroded and/or leaky brake lines! Colby (Sorry, couldn't help my self...)

[John&Robin]

I want to give a recommendation for these guys: http://www.boattrailerparts.com/
I got a Kodiak tandem kit from them, fast and cheap! I had a missing part and notified them on Sunday afternoon and got a personal reply and shipping notice Monday morning.

[Sunbeam]

Thanks for everyone's input

Colby: Ha ha, of course you had to

Since I last posted, I did a bunch of reading last night, got a better look at the problem today, and also visited a quality trailer shop to get their thoughts. Combined with the info here, I think a plan is taking shape.

So first of all, in my reading last night, I found these options:

1) Steel
2) Stainless steel
3) Braided stainless over rubber
4) Thermoplastic
5) Rubber (or maybe that should be "rubber")

Of those, I was willing to consider Stainless steel, Thermoplastic, and rubber (if high quality). I wasn't familiar with thermoplastic lines, but did see that Pacific offers them, and I like their trailers. I read that although braided stainless covered lines are considered to be primo in the car world, they aren't necessarily as good for we boaters, because grit/salt/etc. can work its way into the stainless weave and then wear on the rubber inside. There is some thought that rubber lines make for less crisp braking because they "absorb" some of the force, thus the brakes don't get it. And that with surge brakes this might be more noticeable, as there is only so much the actuator can do, force/distance wise. I was always happy with the brakes, but hey, it's not like I would be disappointed if they were even better.

Second, I went to the boat and took a closer look at things. I found that the line did not "unscrew" from the fitting as I thought at first glance, but rather, broke. I don't know the technical terms, but if you come up a section of line starting with the rubber hose, you then have a swage, then a little/thin piece of metal tubing (maybe 3/16" in diameter or so), and then on the end of that you have the threaded part. That threaded part fastens to the brake caliper. I at first thought that had come undone. But no. What actually happened was that very short thin piece of tubing broke, so the swage is still on the brake hose, and the other part is still on the caliper, but nary the twain shall meet any more.

I checked the hose for a fair lead and didn't see anything that looked badly done. The hose was secured to the axle around 12" from the swage, and then there was a slight bulge of "extra" hose before the caliper attachment such that the line was actually very slightly "wanting" to be on the caliper. It was not flopping loose or pulling at all.

The interesting thing is that I have only launched my boat a half dozen times, and only in fresh water. Plus I've never towed in any snow or salt (and rarely even rain), and I store it indoors far from salt air. So it just seems that it was defective, from what I can tell (or mis-handled at during installation with hidden damage.

Third, I did some Googling to see what was available nearby for trailer shops. I wanted a place that would do the work OR sell parts if I decided to do it myself (not that I don't often order online, but I figured if they gave me some time and good advice, I'd try to buy the parts from them). I stopped in at the shop and liked them right away. Tidy, some nice boats/trailers on the premises, and a knowledgeable parts person who took the time to get to "know" my trailer and what I was looking for. So, what I found out:

- It's quite common for rubber brake lines here to crack on the outside, due to the warm climate (even if not in UV). Oftentimes, the brake lines don't fail but just stay cracked. Apparently there is some sort of liner. On the other hand, they certainly aren't any healthier for it, and I already knew I wanted to replace them since I don't want to think about cracks, and the system is already "open" anyway (so I'll have to bleed).

- If I want to replace them, and want to upgrade, but don't want to go to steel or stainless steel (salt water), he recommended the thermoplastic and showed them to me. They were a medium grey color and more like a plastic tubing along the lines of a very thin/small PEX. Not that they are PEX, of course, but I'm just trying to describe them. They are not as rigid as steel (obviously) but not as rubbery as rubber. Like rubber, you buy them in the next largest length and then coil the extra. So easier to DIY (for me anyway) than steel. Apparently they are between the rubber and the steel in terms of not expanding when you put the brakes on so brakes may be crisper.

- Then while we were at it, I asked about something else. Among the nine hundred other mistakes the shop that rebuilt my trailer made, they put the Kodiak calipers on the top of the discs, when they are supposed to be on the aft side. I asked someone (maybe Kodiak - it's been a few years now) about it and they said it's not horrible to have them on top, but not quite right either. I did have to (at one of my many stops), lift them up slightly and re-tighten them as the shop had left them just "sitting" on the discs and thus there was wear/heat. My hubs did cool right down after I lifted the calipers and loosened the castle nuts (yup, they had them too tight), but it still has been bugging me. But now that the system is due for a re-furb, I think I'd like to move them to where they really should be.

- And (while I'm at it), I really dislike my actuator. That's the one thing on the list that might not happen, but I asked what they liked. Thing is, I had really liked the features of the Tie Down I originally had put on, but it died after less than a week, so then I got a Titan. The Titan works, but it has a few irritating features. One is that the flip lever that engages the prongs that come up on the ball is super finicky. The ball has to be at JUST the exact right spot, not a hint of tension on it, etc. Two is that it doesn't have a designated way to manually lock out the brakes (it does have the solenoid, but sometimes I'd like to be able to manually lock it out - I can do it, but only with clunky methods). Three is that it's a huge pain to bleed (although that could be a good excuse to buy the bleeder I have had my eye on ). Anyway, they recommended a UFP, and when I asked they brought one out and showed it to me. It did look pretty slick. But... we'll see, as the Titan is working fine.

Haven't decided yet whether to do it myself or take it to the shop. They are temporarily out of 20' thermoplastic lines, so I can't take it in there or buy the lines from them right now anyway (and the thermoplastic are my choice as of now).

Sunbeam