Bottom Paint

[jritsema]

Greetings. I have purchased a TC 255 and need to apply barrier coat and bottom paint to a new bottom. Seeking advice on the best bottom paint for the Great Lakes region. I am partial to Pettit, but would welcome any feedback.

[thataway]

I have been using VIVID on our boats. We get about 3 years: in the water about 6 months a year--3 months in fresh, 3 in salt. The rest of the time is on a boat lift or trailer.

[jritsema]

Thanks Bob,
I am familiar with Vivid, having used on my sailboat for years, just did not know if it was appropriate for trailering. The Dealer recommended Optima SR60, a Pettit ablative, and has been his choice for the Carolinas, but suggested I investigate the recommended paint for the Great Lakes.
I have observed this website for years and have appreciated your knowledge and willing feedback, particularly now that I am a TC 255 owner.

[Foggy]

BY FAR, the best is Interlux Interprotect 2000E as a protective base barrier
coat applied on a new FG hull or a prepared (as per Mfg directions) used
boat hull followed by ultra thin Interlux VC 17 or VC Offshore (if you go into
salt water).

I've used this fairly pricey combo for years and sleep well knowing my bottom
is clean and protected. I know dealers who will not provide less to their
customers.

Check it out and you will become a believer too.

Aye.

[gulfcoast john]

Hi JR!
A 2008 TC255 that's never been in the water enough to attract sea critters to her hull is a bit of an outlier.
Remarks on bottompainting your own C-Dory:
After this, I won’t have anything left to say next Saturday at 10am at the Hontoon Gathering (chorus of Hontoon Brats: “Hooray! John’s a blowhard nut job, anyway!")
It’s fair to say that local conditions are important, so there’s no one ‘always best’ bottompaint. Many if not most bottompaints are not compatible with each other, and some can’t come out of the water for more than x days or it’s ruined. There are soft and hard and racing and other versions, but trailer boaters are only interested in ‘ablative’ paints… wears off like soap, once gone no excess sanding needed, trailer compatible, can keep out of water unlike soft coatings, can launch in 1 day, etc etc.
To my knowledge I’m the only Brat to post about using Pettit Hydrocoat in my driveway. Pettit advertises that it is safe for your manicure, which may not be nearly as important to you as it is to me.
http://www.pettitpaint.com/product.asp?id=11
Unlike other bottom paint (except Micron’s new Optima), it is water-based with simple soap and water cleanup, rather than using brain-eating solvents. VOCs are so low you can even use it in your garage. Used rollers, brushes, drop cloths etc are nontoxic and can go in the regular trash (as opposed to HAZMAT waste the boat yard has to pay big bucks to get hauled off to a special landfill). It can be painted over almost any intact well adhered paint (not Teflon) of any other brand. Micron Optima can only be used over other Micron products. I really liked Micron CSC and had it put on by the local yard every 3 years we had the Regal 2665 (over 9 years). My TC255 had Interlux Interprotect epoxy and ablative Pettit Ultima-60, which is hazardous and is only for professional use and $300/gal + shipping. My boat was also a Mobile East Marine dealer boat, as I presume yours is. Honest and experienced dealer. So far I'm real happy, only downside is the Hydrocoat SR does not seem as yellow slime resistant as the Ultima-60, but it's way cheaper and since I can roll it on myself I can do it more often, and just for cosmetic issues. I can easily remove the slime with a green Scotch pad in 20 minutes every couple of months when beached, so it's no big deal. I had just as much yellow slime with Micron CSC or Extra on the Regal in the same marina. Our marina water hits over 92 degrees, and our trips are very short for a Tom Cat, so your mileage may differ. Slime did subtract 3-4 MPH from WOT. We’re in the hot salt water 7 months and on the trailer in the off season. Call Jamestown Distributors 800-628-8225 and ask to speak to the Pettit rep or tech with any questions, he was very helpful.
Never bottompaint your boat if you don’t need to…it reduces resale by 15% or so due to possible ‘hiding’ issues, like used cars. If you never leave the boat marinating in the water for weeks or months, and always trailer, you may have no issues with bottom growth.
Once you get bad hard growth on a bare hull, getting it off may cause deeper gelcoat damage than if you sandblasted or bicarb blasted (preferred) to begin with as the first step in bottomcoating. Then apply 2-3 coats of epoxy primer to prevent osmotic blisters or galvanic issues. It's traditional to use a contrasting color for epoxy barrier and any bottom paint so your dock mates can tell you when it's wearing off.
Pettit describes a do-it-yourself no-sandpaper option for prepping bare hulls but it reads like a LOT of work:
http://www.pettitpaint.com/fileshare/product_pds/Bottom-Painting-Bare-Fiberglass.pdf
If your C-Dory has never had an epoxy barrier coat, getting it off the trailer and up on cribbing and jack stands with chains may be more time and trouble and money than it’s worth, especially for a TC255. (Bob Austin describes how in another thread). I’d consider paying a boat yard $100-$200 per foot to do it right the first time with Pettit Hydrocoat SR, then doing it yourself after that. One may argue that the yard is paying minimum wage to a 19 year old on a work release program for selling meth, but I digress.
Every spring Pettit offers a $20 rebate each on up to 2 gallons. On sale at West and with free shipping (40% cuprous oxide is HEAVY) that’s $180, enough to do a 22 footer. There are good reasons why yards charge $100-200/ft for bottompaint…$2200 for a C-Dory 22… but you can do it in your driveway each spring for under $180 with Pettit hydrocoat.
What’s worked for me:
Store paint upside down a few days so the heavy solids aren’t hard on the bottom of the can.
Like any other paint job, preparation is the key.
Remove flaking or chipped areas at your local car wash using the high pressure wand on ‘Rinse’ an inch or two away. A rental 300PSI pressure washer is even more powerful.
Apply Blue tape above the paint line.
Light sand with 80grit in the driveway as needed. Pics are coming to the album. Use a Lowes N95 mask ($10 for 3) not just a ‘dust’ mask. I have found that sanding is much easier for me if I can convince the Admiral that this is basically women’s work. That worked last year, but I doubt it will fly again this year.
The gallons are too heavy for a commercial shaker, so you need an empty gal paint can ($3 at Ace) and drill stirrer to mix.
Apply 2-3 coats with a 4” , 3/8” mini roller from Lowes (handy mini-tray included).
Don’t fret over areas that ‘scrape’ on the trailer, they self-treat for hard or soft growth and are small enough that they don’t degrade speed or efficiency.
It only takes about 45 min for each outer sponson hull, 60min for bracket coverage on my TC255. I use copper-free Hydocoat ECO on the aluminum bracket. I have no growth on inner hulls or bridgedeck with original Pettite SR 60 bottompaint, presumably because there’s no sun exposure there.
My Bottom Line: Pettite Hydrocoat is like their ads say…remarkable product when used as directed, at a decent price, un-matched when considering it makes bottom painting a trailer boat in your own driveway a legal do-it yourself project for a few hundred bucks rather than a few thousand. I don’t have any known financial interest in any of these products.
Cheers!
John

[NewMoon]

Ten years ago this spring, I decided to bottom paint my 8-year-old boat. After some research, I chose Pettit Hydrocoat. Power-washed and scrubbed thoroughly, used a solvent to make sure no wax remained, and applied a sandless primer (2 coats), then the Hydrocoat (2 coats, or 3 where the greatest wear was expected). Following directions as to timing between coats is critical. Took a few days of work, and a bunch of crawling around under the boat, but was not too tough. Water-based Hydrocoat sure was less nasty to work with than some other paints.

We've spent the summer on the water in SE Alaska every year since. The original Hydrocoat is still protecting most of the bottom. Essentially zero barnacles, year after year, except for the parts of the hull covered by the trailer bunks, which I could not paint. (wish I could say the same for the sterndrive)

2-3 years ago I put additional coats on the sides/chines and transom. I've been scrubbing these areas, where more light reaches the surface and promotes growth of the green stuff, maybe 3 times each summer, with a stiff brush on the end of a long boathook handle. When I haul out at the end of the summer, a thorough power-washing is all it takes to clean the hull well. Sterndrive is another matter, however @$%&!!!

Hydrocoat is great stuff!

[BTDT]

I'm not sure how well Petitt Hydrocoat SL will work in your area, but I have been very impressed with the results on my Tomcat. I purchased the boat in the water and it's painted black hull was unbelievably clean for having spent months in the Pacific waters of Newport bay. I moved my new/old Tomcat to a large mid-west freshwater lake that has a propensity to grow 'stuff' on hulls overnight. The boat was mostly in the water for the summer, with maybe three to four trailer trips, and the hull remained 'spic-and-span'. Because the paint is water based I keep a quart on the shelf for an occasional touch up around dings or trailer 'rubs'. I also like the idea of using a non-hazmat paint in a fresh water lake that supplies our drinking water.

On a side note from a previous post, I kind of doubt that the expensive process of properly priming and painting your hull with the finest products available, will reduce the boats value? Given that I purchased my Tomcat to explore, I was more than happy to pay more for a boat with top-end hull protection.

[jritsema]

Thanks to all of you for the responses to my question. These are really helpful in reaching a conclusion. Be interesting to see what the Michigan Pettit Rep has to say.
Interesting: over many years, and numerous sailboats, I have used VC-17, Micron CSC, Vivid, and HydroCoat SR, some boats trailerable, some not. The results of all of these products has essentially been as advertised, and not significantly different in outcome. Each were 6 consecutive months in fresh water.
This will be my first need to paint a vessel that transits at speeds over 7 knots. I had wondered whether there would be a standout product for boats running at 30 MPH. Perhaps this variable is not so significant.
Again, thanks.
Jeff

[BTDT]

[thataway]

I purposefully did not address the subject of epoxy barrier coat. I do believe that any boat which is going to get its first coast of bottom paint should have a barrier coat. However, here is a 7 to 8 year old boat, which has no paint, and no known sign of blistering. It is going to be out of the water at least 6 months out of the year. The chance of this boat getting osmotic blistering is minimal. There are been very few C Dorys, if any, which have had true osmotic blistering. Several had poor bonding between the colored gel coat and the underlying layers of resin. I attribute this to a poor lay up--probably using wax containing gel coat, and then not cleaning the wax off after it set up--for example a Friday boat...where the gel coat was sprayed, and the next layers are not put into the mold immmediately--sat over a weekend...or even overnight, and wax was on the surface....Again, this is something which would be recognized in the first year of the boat's life.

As Foggy mentions, that is as good as any for the barrier coat. But I like to have at least 10 to 15 mils of epoxy, before the bottom paint. (experience of over 40 years watching osmosis in various parts of the world, mostly in large sailboats.)

[jritsema]

Agreed, perhaps to get away without barrier coat. Were it not for this boat having only 130 hours on its 2008 engines, it might be a consideration. This boat has barely been in the water. And in the colder waters of the great lakes, the blistering is problematic. I had one sailboat blistering experience- severe- and very costly -no visit that again.
Do you get nosebleeds at 30 MPH?

[hardee]

In discussion with others, some from this site and some from other boating backgrounds and views, a question has come up several times. AND since I am a believer in "if 2 are good, 3 is better" and "Why would you not wear suspenders if you are wearing a belt" schools of over build and double duplicitous redundancy, I am wondering, "How many coats of 'Epoxy Barrier' and 'No Sand Primer' need to go on before the 2, 3, 4 or more coats of alternating color 'bottom antifouling paint' does it really take"

If The Epoxy layer is 2 layers thick, will that be enough? Does it need "no Sand Primer, 1 or 2 layers? and then (And I agree to the alternating color bottom paint, or 3 different colors to be able to judge wear) how many layers of the final anti fouling paint are we thinking?

Next: What about painting the metallic intrusions into the water? OB lower units,? Transducer(s), Trim Tabs? Same or different paint, or no paint, and why?

Boat use is currently several single week trips, a 1-3 month trip and maybe a 6 month plus if I go for the Loop. It lives on a bunk trailer, stored inside when not in use.

Thanks for any more current input.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Foggy]

If I abused a boat or bought a used one that may have been abused by hard
beaching on gravel or rocks, anchoring in shallows with a rocky bottom or just
plain wanted to apply the best bottom coverage then forget about my bottom and
sleep well at night, I would go the extra expense and redundancy of applying
epoxy coats, then the Interlux Interprotect 2000E layers and final Interlux VC17
(for fresh water only) or VC Offshore (for fresh/salt water).

Otherwise, forget the epoxy base and put the $$ towards some cruising, slip
rentals and shoreside fun on Lake Michigan.

Aye.

[Kushtaka]

I went the easy route and sanded my bottom and slapped two coats of interlux on there. It's holding strong. My bottom was far from clean before the sanding and was by no means perfectly prepared. The only place I've lost any paint after two years basically in the water year-round was on the transom which I will sand and redo this spring.

It was inexpensive, and is lasting very well. I used to have to haul the boat out every month at least and clear off the bottom. Now I don't have to do it every. Except on the transom, and I can do that while the boat is in the water.

I regret nothing.

[Hunkydory]

Last spring I applied 4 coats of Pettit ablative hydracoat ECO brand bottom paint, just before going on this years SE Alaska & Yukon River cruises. This is Pettit's latest addition to their bottom coat ablative line & is supposedly the most effective with the least harmful effects to humans & environment. It cleaned up easy with soap & water. I applied this over the original bottom paint that was painted in 2000 & then re coated by me about 8 years ago. It went on smooth & easy with preparation being rough sanding of the old paint followed by a good cleaning with acetone.

We were on the ocean for close to two months with hardly any build up & the little there was came off easily. This paint leaves a much smoother yet harder paint surface then the prior ablative paint it covered. The four layers were hard enough, so as to protect the gelcoat with only some scratches that didn't go all the way through the layers, during several severe gravel groundings on the Yukon River. It's only been one season since applying, but thus far I'm very satisfied with the application process & all around bottom protection.

Jay