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If you were equiping your C-Dory today (new or repower), what brand of outboard(s) would you choose for main power? |
Evinrude |
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20% |
[ 24 ] |
Honda |
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40% |
[ 49 ] |
Johnson |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
Mercury |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
Suzuki |
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10% |
[ 12 ] |
Yamaha |
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20% |
[ 24 ] |
Other |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
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Total Votes : 120 |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Mike: You asked-
"What about the whiskey burner?"
I say drink the whiskey and run the Evinrude on the bogus fuel the Wallas rejected! (Oh no, not an other Wallas fuel discussion!!!)
Although the polling may not be complete yet, there are some trends. I'm not sure I can include a properly spaced table/spreadsheet here, so here are the results so far as compared with last time. The brand is followed by the first poll percentage, then the second, then the percent change.
Evinrude 9% 17% +8%
Honda 52% 40% -12%
Johnson 5% 4% -1%
Mercury 2% 4% +2%
Suzuki 9% 11% +2%
Yamaha 19% 21% +2%
It looks like Honda has lost 12% of our membership's preferences along with a 1% dropping for Johnson, with the primary recipient being the new Evinrude E-techs with a +8%, and a 2% gain each for Mercury, Suzuki, and Yamaha.
It's even more dramatic when you figure the % change from the former percentage, for example Honda had 52% and dropped to 40%, so their proportional percent change is
40/52= 0.77 x 100 = 77%, meaning they have 77% of their former following or lost 23%.
By the same method, the changes of all are now:
Evinrude 17/9= 1.89 x 100=189%, or an 89% gain.
Honda 40/52= 0.77 x 100=77%, a 23 % loss.
Johnson 4/5= 0.8 x 100=80%, a 20% loss.
Mercury 4/2= 2.0 x 100=200%, a 100% gain.
Suzuki 11/9= 1.22 x 100= 122%, a 22% gain.
Yamaha 21/19=1.11 x 100= 111%. an 11% gain.
These show the relative percentage gains and losses as compared to the previous survey thus far.
My guess is that the general consensus is that the new E-techs are looking pretty interesting to our C-Dory fans, and that Honda has lost some of it's following due to its slowness to update the mid-range engines from 40 to 90 hp. I'll bet their market share recovers somewhat after the anticipated update. Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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DodgeRam
Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 199 City/Region: Vancouver Isl. CANADA
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaRam
Photos: SeaRam
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Here in BC Yamaha rules not because it a the best engine, but because dealer network is in every corner. By the way, one of the reasons Honda is such a big seller is it incentives on a lower interest when you buy Honda so have been told. Gary |
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DodgeRam
Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 199 City/Region: Vancouver Isl. CANADA
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaRam
Photos: SeaRam
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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When I ordered my 2005 C-Dory my gut feeling was to have twin 50 E-TECH , I even told my dealer to cancel my Yamaha. But I got a little scared cause in January 2005 Evinrude dealer did not have the engines yet. So I did not want to wait for them, but now I regret my decision. Cause I beleive that E-Tech is the future of Outboards, and it won't be too long before all other MFRs follows in thier foot steps. Gary |
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Da Nag
Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 2820 City/Region: Port Angeles
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Taco
Photos: <a>Da Boats</a>
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Sea Wolf wrote: | Although the polling may not be complete yet, there are some trends. |
Yeah...and the trends, along with the current poll data, provide very little information that is useful in determining outboard selection.
The only outboard choices that are available to every potential new C-Dory purchaser are those sold by the factory - Honda and Suzuki. Therefore, beyond these two manufacturers, any other outboard selection for a new boat relies on local availability and support - very few folks order a bare boat, and have it rigged at a non-C-Dory dealer. So...I could care less what somebody in another state/area would buy, as the decision is most heavily influenced by what they CAN buy.
Add to that, the poll doesn't differentiate between C-Dory models or whether you want a single or twins, so the perspective for each voter is completely different. As has been pointed out already, the technical differences between the manufacturers' offerings varies widely depending on the three power ranges a particular C-Dory uses (40-50, 75-100, 135-150.)
So...about the only thing I'm convinced of, is that Dodges still suck... _________________ Will, C-Brat Nerd |
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Sneaks
Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 2020 City/Region: San Diego (Encinitas)
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: C-Brat
Photos: Jenny B and C-Brat
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Da Nag wrote: | So...about the only thing I'm convinced of, is that Dodges still suck... |
I just had to see that again.
Don |
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TyBoo
Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 5314 City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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For a long time I was bewildered as to why Da Ford guy never bothered to point out that Cummins Diesel is 51% owned by Ford Motor Company, and the only reason Dodge is still allowed to use their engines is because of contractual obligations. Then it occurred to me that perhaps he knew the reason they bought it. That being, once the contract term expires, Ford can use the Cummins and once again regain the majority of the heavy passenger truck market. Ford is still the domestic sales leader in the overall light truck lines with their F Series, but that's only because the F150 is the most popular. They are trailing Dodge slightly in the 3/4 ton line, and losing big time in the 1 ton market, the latter of which is the only one I am interested in. GM, well, some people still buy those once in a while. So, to say Dodge sucks is rather silly when the other two guys are sucking a lot further back on the proverbial udder.
Now then, when Dodge can't use that Cummins any more, they got a pretty good replacement in the works from the Mercedes Benz folks. And by that time, Toyota will have overtaken the F150 in sales, and Ford will be relegated to the proverbial hind one. Nevertheless, I will probably then buy a Ford to get the Cummins. _________________ TyBoo Mike
Sold: 1996 25' Cruise Ship
Sold: 1987 22' Cruiser |
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DodgeRam
Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 199 City/Region: Vancouver Isl. CANADA
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SeaRam
Photos: SeaRam
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Don't no were you got your info about fORD owning 51% of Cummins that funny. Check it out trhought (Cummins) web site. Yes it would be nice one day to see a real Diesel (Cummins) in a Ford truck. I heard to the great vine that Ford is coming out with a new 6.? liter new engine again.... Even with a Cummins in a Ford truck I would rather Push My Dodge than own a Ford. |
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TyBoo
Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 5314 City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I made up just about everything in that post. That way I get a quiet evening while Da Nag and Sneaks are busy clicking around the WWW trying to disprove it. I used to pull that same trick on RF, but he don't fall for it no more.
The Ford/Cummins rumor has been around for a long time, and many (including me at first) believe it. |
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DaveS
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 3204 City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Sneaks wrote: | Da Nag wrote: | So...about the only thing I'm convinced of, is that Dodges still suck... |
I just had to see that again.
Don |
Yep, it is a true statement indeed.......the Dodges suck the Fords and Chevys up in their backdraft when they pass them on the road....that's the only way the Fords and Chevys can come close to keeping up with the mighty Dodge _________________ Dave S.
"Sea Shift"
C-Brat #16 |
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AK Angler
Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 327 City/Region: South Central
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Rod Holder
Photos: Rod Holder
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Da Nag wrote: | ... the trends...provide very little information that is useful in determining outboard selection.
The only outboard choices that are available to every potential new C-Dory purchaser are those sold by the factory - Honda and Suzuki.
...the decision is most heavily influenced by what they CAN buy. |
So, EVERY new owner has the option of powering with a Honda. One would think that would make Honda the most popular, and it still is. Yet the trend is that Honda is getting much less popular overall. My conclusion is that there must be a reason, like cost/performance, or available technology, or weight/performance, or color selection, or SOMETHING driving the poll.
Understand that this poll is in no way scientific, and that polls in general only evaluate opinions and perceptions. With that said, the indication that Honda is getting less popular as a power/repower choice seems like a valid conclusion to me. As to any underlying reasons why this is, I have no clue.
And just for the record, my outboard ownership includes 3 Johnsons (all 3 came mounted on used boats), 1 Gamefisher/Mercury/Force (bought from a dealer), and a Clinton (saved from the trash). But while my local dealer sells both Honda and Evinrude (and Johnson), I voted for the E-tec. Conclude what you will from that. _________________ -Rod
89CD16A- The Navicula has been sold... |
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Redƒox Guest
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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From what I have gleaned, I understand the new E-Tech is far more sophisticated electronically than our four-stokes.
Myself (aside from not liking the high-strung 2-stoke firing frequency) my choice will remain 4-stroke over 2-stroke, for the simple reason of my faith in mechanical redundancy over electronic redundancy
In the snowmachine industry, where engines are taken to the utmost limit in maximum-sustained-power delivery... there is NO COMPARISON... the 2-strokes (no matter how tough they build them) don't even hold a candle to the 4-stokes dependability. Get this: their getting 385 horsepower out of the Yamaha RX-1. Thats a 1-liter 20-valve 4 cylinder engine. Staying in tune with the "sled-head" action reveals racers literally falling in luv with 4-strokes because they don't need to be workin on them all the time as they would if they were still tweakin on the mighty old 2-stroke
The latest greatest technology reveals the gap in weight for 2 vs 4-strokes is closing rapidly every season... more are going 4-stoke than ever before. My interest has been re-inspired in high-perf'-sledding, since Yamaha is now competing with the noisy, smelly, vibrating, unreliable 2-stoke.
Sorry ya had to read all that ranting (or did ya ) just tryna enlarge the subject a little
out... poof** |
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Da Nag
Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 2820 City/Region: Port Angeles
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Taco
Photos: <a>Da Boats</a>
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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AK Angler wrote: | With that said, the indication that Honda is getting less popular as a power/repower choice seems like a valid conclusion to me. As to any underlying reasons why this is, I have no clue. |
Yup, not disputing the conclusion. In fact, our registration data goes along with the polling trends as well.
Code: | 2005 C-Brat Registrations
Honda 44 (55%)
Suzuki 10 (13%)
Yamaha 11 (14%)
Johnson 1 (1%)
Evinrude 4 (5%)
Mercury 1 (1%)
Other 9 (11%)
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Total 80
2004 C-Brat Registrations
Honda 52 (69%)
Suzuki 7 (9%)
Yamaha 4 (5%)
Johnson 4 (5%)
Evinrude 1 (1%)
Mercury 0 (0%)
Other 7 (9%)
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Total 75
2003 C-Brat Registrations
Honda 49 (73%)
Suzuki 4 (6%)
Yamaha 6 (9%)
Johnson 0 (0%)
Evinrude 1 (1%)
Mercury 1 (1%)
Other 6 (9%)
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Total 67
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My only point is, the raw data, as collected, is pretty useless for purposes of determining which brand to go with in a particular situation. The fact that Honda is losing C-Dory market share is obvious, but for which boats? And in which markets?
To me, I find the results interesting...but they would carry very little weight in my personal decision making process. |
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Sneaks
Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 2020 City/Region: San Diego (Encinitas)
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: C-Brat
Photos: Jenny B and C-Brat
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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AK Angler wrote: | So, EVERY new owner has the option of powering with a Honda. One would think that would make Honda the most popular, and it still is. Yet the trend is that Honda is getting much less popular overall. My conclusion is that there must be a reason, like cost/performance, or available technology, or weight/performance, or color selection, or SOMETHING driving the poll.
I voted for the E-tec. Conclude what you will from that. |
No, just every new owner who buys from the factory. My dealer here in So Cal offered Yamaha only.
I too voted E-tec because the poll asked if I had the choice and were buying new right now. But I would certainly want to thoroughly check out Red Fox's 2 stroke buzz claim before plunking down $$$$
Don |
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flagold
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 951 City/Region: Abbeville
State or Province: AL
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Dawg-E
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Don't really have any fish to fry in this fight, but I am continually amazed by all the fuel this Mercury doesn't burn. I went down to Anclote Key today (mouth of Tampa Bay) a 22 mile one way trip and burned only 10.3 gallons upon return. On the way back (left before dawn on radar) I skimmed across the flats inshore of the flats fishermen in their ultra high-buck high-tech flats boats and their mouths were agape (either they couldn't believe the shallow draft or I spooked their world record tarpon -- oh well . . .). Coming from 220, 200, 175, 90, and 88 2-strokes, the economy great (no matter what brand). If the E-tech can match or better it with dependability, so much the better, but there is one other factor RF mentioned: quiet. It is also hard to get used to actually talking to someone instead of shouting and that has been a great thing with these 4-strokes. Of course I realize my Merc has a Yamaha powerhead, but the Merc lower has some advantages too:
Pic: sliding the keel upriver on sand with power (no Hondas etc., allowed . . .)
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TyBoo
Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 5314 City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Me thinks we oughta wait until the poll has run a little longer to be comparing results. It looks to me like the only brand pulling Honda's share is Evinrude, which of course is the new ETech.
But that's not what we're here for...
In deference to the Sneaky one, I must admit that Chevys are good for something, namely, smashing brush:
But, as is so often necessary, the big Dodge is standing by to tow the Chevy out when it gets stuck:
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