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TyBoo



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hand held flares make pretty good bonfire starters, but the aerial shotgun flares are a little harder to get rid of.

One 4th of July a few years back we anchored in the river to watch the local fireworks. Someone in the cluster of boats sent up an aerial distress flare and very soon the sheriff marine deputies on their boat, escorted by a Coast Guard boat, were asking each skipper who sent it up. And their tone was quite stern.

Every couple of years it seems the local CG and LE sponsor a training class at the Port of Astoria where some participants are able to launch the shotgun flares. It's been a wile since I heard of them having one so maybe this spring will be the year. Now that I have a little more time to spare I might just see if I can take my expired stuff to the thing. At the very least they will probably dispose of the old aerials for me.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
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Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

therevdr wrote:
"The Coast Guard says that you cannot store outdated flares with your current ones that are carried to meet compliance."

I am ready to stand corrected about this . . . but I find no regulation or USCG statement that states that expired and non-expired flares must be stored separately.
therevdr


Here is what CG says about expired flares:

Quote:
Pyrotechnic visual distress signals must be U S Coast Guard-approved, in serviceable condition, and readily accessible
Check the expiration date Expired signals may be carried as extra equipment, but cannot be counted toward meeting the visual distress signal requirement....Pyrotechnic devices should be stored in a cool, dry place, if possible A watertight container painted red or orange and prominently marked “DISTRESS SIGNALS” or “FLARES” is recommended


I have been told on several occasions by boarding personal that the current and expired cannot be kept in the same container. You are under an obligation to keep the expired flares separate from the un expired units so that they are not confused. Written or not, it is common sense to keep them separate. Your choice to argue with a boarding officer.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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City/Region: Madison
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because one is an "official" doesn't make them an expert on the regulations. No need to argue with an officer, but a respectful request for the documentation they wish you to abide by can help set them straight also. if one is determined... I do agree that keeping expired safety equipment separate from current safety equipment is a good idea. But sometimes space is at a premium. As an example, I carry both my expired and unexpired flares in a waterproof and floating bag, but in different ziplock bags inside that bag. The current one well marked! And if I ever need to use them, quite frankly, I'm going to load and fire what's necessary. As for disposal of expired flares, it's a PITA here in Wisconsin! Nobody wants them! I was finally able to hand some off to a Marine Sheriff that used them for training. (I think he got tired of me begging him.) And it's illegal to fire them off if you are not in distress. Seems I remember one official telling me to soak them in water, then throw them away. But I also believe that was contradicted by another official. So when I finally found someone that would take them, I offloaded all but 4. I'm now back up to 8 I believe (along with another 4 that are current.) I'm beginning to wonder if it would be practical to dig a big hole, and fire them into the bottom of it? Colby
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AstoriaDave



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years past, one of fhe PDX sea kayaking clubs scheduled a training for new paddlers on safety gear. This was off a beach near the mouth of the Columbia River, so they contacted the locsl USCG station and notified them of the plan to use shotgun style flares in training. USCG said fine, go ahead, give a heads up to us before you start, and a Securite' call on 16 so that local boaters will know the flares are not a distress signal.

The training went well, nobody called in a distress signal sighting, and a dozen or so folks new to the game went home with hands on experience useful in a true emergency. This was before the Homeland Security overlay was applied, so things may be more restricted now. Might be worth a call.

Forgot, the training was in full daylight, minimizing the chance that someone ashore might phone in an alarm. I think the County marine patrol was in on this, also.

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jbdba01



Joined: 18 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesTXSD wrote:
The company I previously worked with used expired flares for crew training. You can say, "Don't hold the flare straight up," but a burning flare with the slag dripping off really makes the point, when holding it! Cool

Like Jay, I like having 12 ga pistol/flares onboard, but those last for a very short time when fired, compared to the handheld flares. I like to have both, and in a waterproof case.


Yeah I found out about that slag when I fired off one of the expired ones - was curious to see what it looked like. Dang if that stuff didn't leave a mess in the driveway.

Regardless I switched to a pistol variety after I was talking to my father about possibly jaunting over to the Bahamas. He suggested I read our neighbors adventure to Hawaii - he ended up in a life raft for 66 days. Later he wrote a book about it - it's an OK book (link is here).

Regardless after reading the book I carry the pistol as primary, and replace those cartridges over time. I have the expired hand held variety in the boat, but don't see replacing those.

That said I don't venture to far offshore.

My $.02.
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Bill K



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of years ago West Marine accepted my expired flares.

Might be worth asking them.

Bill Kelleher

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olsurfdog



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your replies and thoughts on this. I'm glad to have the exact citation by Thataway for the CG regulation, that was my understanding but it's good to have the exact info. I like the thoughts about the right combination of types of flare also. I too, like the idea of having "rocket" type shotgun flares but 4 of them is less than thirty seconds, so, I'm going to go with having both types. At some point I'd like to get a laser flare to have in my ditch bag.
Good ideas on where to store them also. Still interested in where and how you store them and do you label the place and etc. Someone out there may have an idea that hasn't been mentioned and it may be the " perfect" place!
Thanks again to everyone for thier thoughts and ideas!!

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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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City/Region: Madison
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep my "ditch" bag under the table in that small floor compartment on my CD-22. Right on top of anything else in that compartment. If I need it, I simply open the little door and grab it. Smile Not a lot in it, other than the flares, and some other emergency items that I might need in coastal boating. (Not any father than 10 miles offshore on inland lakes.) Colby
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbdba01 Thans for the reminder of the saga of Bill Buttler, and his wife, chronicled in "Last Chance" 1991, and the latest version "66 days adrift". It is truly a story which every offshore sailor should read. The book is a great read, and for those

They survived because of the water maker--luck and skills. At the time they lost their 38 foot LOA, 26 foot LWL, and 9" beam wooden boat after being hit by whales, they did not have an EPIRB. Today most all of us who go even relatively short distances have either a PLB or EPRIB, which would have saved them within days. It may well have been that last flare which finally sent the Coasta Rica CG there way, when a ship came within yards of their raft.

We started carrying the ETL (aircraft distress freq 121.5 MHz--now phased out) in the early 1970's. By 1980 we had a Marine EPRIB, but I suspect it was also 121.5.MHz. By our trip in 1982, we had two early 406 MHz satellite active EPRIB's aboard--one in the companionway of the boat, and the second in the ditch bag, in the raft.

The Personal Locator Beacon became fully operational for World Wide use only in the 2005 era..
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael,

I have enjoyed this thread too and always looking to learn.

I carry both handheld flares and pistol flares, and the current ones are in the emergency canister, Orange, waterproof cylinder stored in the hatch space under the table. It is very likely going to find a different, more accessible spot.

My ditch bag, is a white (Igloo, I think), backpack cooler, with waterproof insulation,(so it will float), and several pockets, and has mostly survival gear, some emergency food, VHF, signaling devices and 2 Orange watch caps and some gloves. This pack sits on the rear seat, port side aft of the table, and ready on the way out the door... just in case.

Harvey
SleepyCMoon


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