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Marco Flamingo
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1155
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
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 Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| beermanPDX wrote: | All radios on board should have the same MMSI number.
Good info about the USCG Test Call MMSI. |
The same number for all permanent mounted radios. Not necessarily true for handheld radios on board, depending on your proposed usage. If the handheld is just a backup for the main, then use the same MMSI. If used in a tender, or in a kayak, for instance, then you probably want a different MMSI. Reason being that if you are in your kayak 12 miles from the main boat, and you flip, can't re-enter, and are being swept out to sea at night, you don't want the USCG looking for and finding a 22 foot boat with that MMSI, which might be sitting quietly at anchor. For handhelds, some were getting USBoat numbers with generic descriptions like "tender to M/V C-Lubber." Even better might be "tender to XXXXXXXXX (the MMSI to the main vessel). That would give the USCG the ability to contact the main vessel if there was anyone aboard.
I also didn't know that local USCG stations and marine services have MMSI numbers. I don't know how old or accurate this information is, but something to look into.
>Group MMSI Astoria OR 003669910 Baltimore MD 003669961 Boston MA 003669901 Charleston SC 003669907 Delaware Bay NJ 003669905 Hampton Roads VA 003669922 Houston / Galveston TX 003669915 Jacksonville FL 003669962 Key West FL 003669918 Long Island NY 003669931 Miami FL 003669919 Mobile AL 003669914 New Orleans LA 003669908 New York NY 003669929 North Bend OR 003669911 North Carolina 003669906 Port Angeles WA 003669904 Portland OR 003669937 St Petersburg FL 003669917 Seattle WA 003669938 International MMSI 009990000 Universal MMSI 003669999 (all US CG Stations) TowBoatUS Gulf Coast, Florida, East Coast to Long Island, NY 033804000. <
I still haven't found how to create an internal directory of MMSI numbers on my Uniden, but it's only a matter of time until I find out.
Mark |
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beermanPDX
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 261
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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The issue of MMSIs on handhelds is a tricky one, primarily for the reason you mention. Hopefully the USCG comes to an agreement on what they should do. Until then, this is what they say:
| USCG wrote: | Obtaining MMSIs for DSC-equipped VHF Handhelds
A handheld VHF transceiver with DSC and an integral global navigation satellite system (e.g. GPS) not intended for dedicated use on a particular ship (e.g. a diver’s radio) should be assigned a unique 9-digit number in the format 81M2I3D4X5X6X7X8X9. While currently means do not exist within the U.S. to assign such identities, the Coast Guard has been in discussions with the Federal communications Commission and others on implementing them.
In the interim, VHF handhelds used in the United States should use the MMSI assigned to the ship to which the handheld is primarily associated, even if another radio on that ship uses the same MMSI. Non-commercial users of VHF handhelds not primarily associated with any single ship may use an MMSI provided by an organization such as BOAT US, SEA TOW and U.S. Power Squadron (see above). VHF handhelds should not be used ashore absent FCC or NTIA authorization allowing such use. |
_________________
Cheers 
Rob
2008 25 Cruiser - Sold
2002 Nordic Tug 32/4 - Sold
1989 40 Tollycraft Sport Sedan |
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Marco Flamingo
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1155
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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It turns out that my old Uniden, the cheapest model and still available new, cannot store any MMSI numbers for contacting other vessels/services. Any individual contact number has to be entered each time by pressing the right combination of buttons and arrows. That is like having a cell phone that not only doesn't store phone numbers but also doesn't have a number pad. Looks like it's old school channels for me. At least I don't have to hand crank it when transmitting.
Mark |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Up until I just read the post from Mark:
| Quote: | | " If the handheld is just a backup for the main, then use the same MMSI. If used in a tender, or in a kayak, for instance, then you probably want a different MMSI. Reason being that if you are in your kayak 12 miles from the main boat, and you flip, can't re-enter, and are being swept out to sea at night, you don't want the USCG looking for and finding a 22 foot boat with that MMSI, which might be sitting quietly at anchor. For handhelds, some were getting USBoat numbers with generic descriptions like "tender to M/V C-Lubber." Even better might be "tender to XXXXXXXXX (the MMSI to the main vessel). That would give the USCG the ability to contact the main vessel if there was anyone aboard." |
I was in complete agreement with Rob, in that the HH's should have the same MMSI as the fixed VHF's om board. (Like I like the idea of 3 radios all screaming at me at the same time and all switching to some channel I did not choose for something else ----> NOT  
Consequently I have resisted setting my MMSI into my HH radio. Now with Marks application, (though I single hand almost entirely), if I were using the DSC on the HH I would not want the CG looking for my 22 safely at anchor or somewhere other than where I am at. That is a serious thought, and knowing how long it takes the government to catch up to technology and practicality I am really considering a BoatUS number for my handheld VHF.
Yes Rob, I agree, I like to do things according to the "legal and suggested "professional" ways I can see the application for a variance here and might consider the handslap I get for not following convention  
Harvey
SleepyC 
_________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Marco Flamingo wrote: | It turns out that my old Uniden, the cheapest model and still available new, cannot store any MMSI numbers for contacting other vessels/services. Any individual contact number has to be entered each time by pressing the right combination of buttons and arrows. That is like having a cell phone that not only doesn't store phone numbers but also doesn't have a number pad. Looks like it's old school channels for me. At least I don't have to hand crank it when transmitting.
Mark |
Marco,
Switch your VHF to a Standard Horizon GX 2200 or to an ICOM M-506 and you will get easy DSC AND AIS receive. Some $$$ but you will never want to go back. Better yet, don't switch, just add the second radio.
Harvey
SleepyC
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beermanPDX
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 261
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| hardee wrote: |
Consequently I have resisted setting my MMSI into my HH radio. Now with Marks application, (though I single hand almost entirely), if I were using the DSC on the HH I would not want the CG looking for my 22 safely at anchor or somewhere other than where I am at. That is a serious thought, and knowing how long it takes the government to catch up to technology and practicality I am really considering a BoatUS number for my handheld VHF. |
If that scenario happens, I'm using my PLB anyway. I can just call an old-school 'mayday' on the handheld.
FYI - Harvey, on your recommendation I just bought the ICOM M506 for the new boat. I'm going to love that "last two minute" record / playback feature. No more asking whoever is with me "what'd he say?" |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| beermanPDX wrote: | | hardee wrote: |
Consequently I have resisted setting my MMSI into my HH radio. Now with Marks application, (though I single hand almost entirely), if I were using the DSC on the HH I would not want the CG looking for my 22 safely at anchor or somewhere other than where I am at. That is a serious thought, and knowing how long it takes the government to catch up to technology and practicality I am really considering a BoatUS number for my handheld VHF. |
If that scenario happens, I'm using my PLB anyway. I can just call an old-school 'mayday' on the handheld.
FYI - Harvey, on your recommendation I just bought the ICOM M506 for the new boat. I'm going to love that "last two minute" record / playback feature. No more asking whoever is with me "what'd he say?" |
Rob,
BINGO But I am sure you did plenty of homework on it first.
You are right. You will enjoy that. And the very "no nonsense" menu access. It has become my favorite VHF on board.
As to using the handheld, My thought is that is will work to vector in the helicopter after they respond to the PLB.
Harvey
SleepyC
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20808
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Lets say you have to abandon the main vessel, and to the life raft? Then the band held has a great value with the same MMSI #.
Also when the CG has its assets out (Helo, Safe boat, cutter, plane, ) they all have RDF and will be honing on the Channel 70 DSC signal. So at that point you deploy a flag, fare, strobe etc.
Also in a MOB, this is where the hand held comes into its own. Yes, the PLB is great, and has a 121.5 homing beacon. But you are going to get more rapid results with the DSC radio, than the PLB. DSC local boats argon got be looking for that distress event!
I am putting the main vessel DSC in it.
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Marco Flamingo
Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1155
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious as to what happens when somebody enters a DSC position request and there are multiple stations using the same MMSI# (this assumes that the handheld has GPS and therefore multiple stations might respond with LatLon data). Also, if I wanted to request the location of my handheld, and it had the same MMSI as my boat, how would the handheld respond? If the handheld has AIS plotting, and I was trying to navigate to the main vessel at night, could I do that if the MMSI#s are the same? I would be asking "where am I" when I'm in two positions. Sounds like a Dr. Who episode.
Lots of things to consider when deciding whether you want your HH to have the same MMSI.
I'm not there yet but I did just find two old posts that say that Lowrance issued a free software update that allows my model of chart plotter to now receive and plot AIS data. I would have thought that more people would have talked about this or that Lowrance would have mentioned that in their description of what the software upgrade included. Their new version of my model clearly touts having this ability. I guess that they want people to upgrade with a new unit, not a free download. I've downloaded the software and I should know by tomorrow if it's true. If so, then I get to buy a new radio. It's always something.
Mark |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20808
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe any current handheld VHF has a an AIS receiver, let alone transmitter. The VHF radio should give the Lat and Long of its position if queried.
I would see that as an advantage...
I have not yet used my recently acquired dSC equip Hand held to query the main radio. But since the doc VHF radios have a built in GPS, it is easy to mark the location of the boat when you left it as a waypoint, and navigate to that waypoint. I did this a long time ago with a hand held GPS in dense fog.
There are localized AIS transmitters for MOB--but you would not want to use that just to locate a boat.
Although we have left the boat under way at night with a fast dinghy to take the dogs ashore, the boat was moving slowly enough that we could keep it in sight. I cannot see a situation where I would leave the C Dory, when it was underway, in the dinghy. I guess if I did then I would arrange a GPS waypoint to meet at. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I found this on the BoatUS web site: (bold, italic and underline emphasis is mine)
| Quote: | Q: I have a VHF Handheld with DSC capability. Can I register it for an MMSI through your website?
A: If the handheld is for Marine use, yes; however you would need to keep the registration updated according to the specifics of which boat it is being used on. Reason being, the USCG could be misled in a distress situation thinking a distress came from a boat other than the one actually involved and could end up dispatching the wrong type of rescue unit or calling the wrong emergency contact in any particular situation. Also, it would be inappropriate to register handheld VHF if the intention is for over land use such as hiking. The Coast Guard will not be the appropriate response for this type of distress. Use of Marine VHF Radios on land is prohibited. |
I have been studying this from several points of view, and have talked about it with several experienced mariners, and for now, and unless I get some pretty big "other" information, my handheld is not going to have an MMSI registered into it.
My reasoning: It is very highly unlikely that my handheld would be the primary reporting radio for an emergency, even though it is the closest VHF to me (on my PFD harness.) My primary use for that radio is to use it to direct any responding unit (that I can see), directly to me. I am less than convinced that a Mayday call on 16 will raise a response from any CG asset on an initial call. ( I might try a test call on 22 some day just for practice -- but it won't be a "Mayday")
I have on a couple of occasions talked to a US CG Helo that was overhead, just to confirm I could get contact with them, and had good copy on both high and low power off the fixed mount radios.
Harvey
SleepyC
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12632
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Bob.
I could not find any handheld that had AIS receive capability. It may be in the works, but not on the market for 2016.
Harvey
SleepyC
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