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Planning-Yukon River cruise 2016
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Casey



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1094
City/Region: The Villages(FL)
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: "Dessert 1st"
Photos: Dessert 1st
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay,

It sounds as though you have some good info on where to leave the truck and trailer and you're now thinking about river navigation issues. Here are some thoughts.

Satellite views of the Yukon would be very useful, but if you're out of cellphone range satellite views may not be available. Granted, satellite view may be somewhat outdated but they are better then nothing. (Trying to pick out the best channel of a braided river, FROM WATER LEVEL can be difficult.). Could you lay out your course on the river, using satellite photos then take a SCREEN SHOT of the river with your preferred route depicted? You would then be able to pull-up the screen shot photo and use that as a go-by. You could even do this from home to practice the technique.

I did an earlier variation of this for my 2000 trip to SEAK in the Boston Whaler. I layed out a GPS route for the entire trip using nautical charts. I then transferred those waypoints onto my Garmin GPS III+ (obsolete, I know!!) to create a basic route. I then printed a paper copies of the proposed route(with the GPS waypoints and tracks showing...) and put them in page protectors for the actual trip. Seemed unnecessarily complex at the time, but I didn't have a chart plotter at that time.

Another idea, but this is pretty far out: Convince Jody Kidd and his QUADCOPTER to go along! With a quadcopter you could have real time views of the braided river, from aloft!

Best,
Casey&Mary

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2013 CC23 "Katmai" renamed "Dessert 1st"
2006 CC23 "Katmai" (purchased August 2009)
2003 CD22 "Naknek" (sold May 2008)
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jack, & I do plan on sharing this adventure by Delorme In Reach, written log, photos & maybe some video.

Casey, on our 2004 cruise north from Prince Rupert, I used much the same method as you on your 2000 SEAK trip, for a back up to our Nobletech electronic charts on a notebook computer. This along with additional paper charts & GPS way points allowed us to continue cruising for the week plus it took for the replacement computer to arrive after we lost the original in the Fords Terror incident, so I well understand the method you'er suggesting & think a variation of it to be useful in preplanning & while on the river. The guide book we plan to use is called "Yukon Channel Charts" by Bruce Bachelor, which includes sternwheeler style strip maps. This is what we used in 2003 & think without it, the trip from Carmacks to Whitehorse & back would not have been successful. This time we plan on using the Internet sat map views to improve the route already made on the strip maps, along with the Garmin GPS 276C Topo maps to fairly accurately pinpoint our location, when actually on the river. In 2003 we found the strip maps fairly easy to use & we already have many notes for improved navigation on them. I think your idea of screen saver shots very good & I will be working up a series of them to be best incorporated in conjunction with the GPS chart & book strip maps.

We would love to have Jody along with us & his Voyager with or without the Quadcopter, though I agree it's views sure could be useful in real time.

Jay

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Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers
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AJF



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 72
City/Region: Hamlet of Mt. Lorne near Whitehorse
State or Province: YT
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though Bruce's Yukon Channel Charts has been a well respected book for many years it is quite dated. Many people now have been using Mike Rourkes maps of the Yukon River, which is more up to date. http://www.yukonbooks.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=2818
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes AJF, it was first published in 1975 & I kinda doubt my 1995 updated version had river routes changed from the original, but still found it remarkably accurate in 2003. The Mile Rourke book is now 10 years old & most likely outdated some too. I had looked it over & was still debating on buying it to use for comparison with Bachelors with your present post pushing me into buying it now. Thanks.

Jay
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AJF



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 72
City/Region: Hamlet of Mt. Lorne near Whitehorse
State or Province: YT
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay
You might find this site of interest' especially the old photos of the Whitehorse and Dawson river front. I'm afraid they no longer look that way. https://www.facebook.com/1967YukonRiverFlotilla/?pnref=story

You might have seen this video already of the last trip of a paddle wheeler down the Yukon river. When I first came to the Yukon several of paddle wheedlers you see on the shore in Whitehorse were still there until a tragic fire in 1974 destroyed them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOLX8L3olRk
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJF, I found both links you shared fascinating. The video & photos of the amphicars amazing & that they made it along with all the others even more so. I hadn't viewed before, the video of the last trip of the Keno, so it was really good to see. In viewing it, I found this link to the last voyage of the Klondike going up steam from Dawson to Whitehorse. It's another short video well worth watching too.

http://youtu.be/KpTtFngqePI

Jay
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the last couple of days, I've spent many hours comparing my copy of Bruce Bachelor's Yukon River proposed routes & what I can actually see from the satellite imagery from Bing. I've now made several adjustments on our strip maps & have notations on them where the imagery isn't good, that I plan to compare to the Mike Rourke guide book, when it arrives for final route plans. In doing this, I've now decided not to do screen shots of the sat imagery, which Casey suggested & I thought a good idea. When actually on the river & in a place a decision needs to be made quickly, I think the best simple system without to much data to sort through, that lets me 1st & foremost read the river & my surroundings paramount. This, I think can be best accomplished with just the strip map book with our adjusted routes & other notations on it, in combination with the Garmin GPS & recorded river mileage showing our position on the river fairly accurately. Perhaps if the sat imagery wasn't so broken up in many different areas of size detail, along with views being blocked by ice & clouds, I would be more comfortable in its use on the river.

This reviewing of our 2003 notes on the strip maps & the sat imagery brought back many memories of that trip & boosted confidence, especially in the river section between Whitehorse & Carmacks. On the lower river section of 260 miles, between Carmacks & Dawson, I found several areas where the suggested routes are now filled in with sand bars & know there are other areas where the sat imagery is poor or the river has changed yet again, that we will have to adjust for on the spot & a main reason, I want to keep our navigation aids simple with emphases being "eyes on" river reading of the river & it's surroundings, combined with before hours spent memorizing the more useful sat imagery.

Jay
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AJF



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 72
City/Region: Hamlet of Mt. Lorne near Whitehorse
State or Province: YT
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jay

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Geomatics Yukon as a source for imagery information for the Yukon. But if not you might want to check it out : http://www.geomaticsyukon.ca/
I use the site a lot for a variety of projects and find it very useful. Just be prepared to spend a lot of time finding how to access all the information that is available on this site.
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AJF



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 72
City/Region: Hamlet of Mt. Lorne near Whitehorse
State or Province: YT
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jay

With your interest in the Yukon river, I thought you might find this book of interest on the old steam boats that once plied the river. I picked it up myself and found it fascinating reading and full of amazing photos. http://yukon-news.com/letters-opinions/new-book-charts-history-of-yukon-river-steamers/
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things again AJF, for another good link. I have read several books about the paddle wheelers on the Yukon & this will most likely be added to them, but likely not until I get to Whitehorse. I've found the shipping cost from there to be steep. It should make for good reading while actually on the river. My favorite book so far about the Yukon River was by C R Porter "Klondike Paradise" & only incidentally about the actual river due to the author's youth time there described. It had wonderful descriptions of his time on the river & equally so the history of Ben My Chree, his purchase of Ben My Chree on Tagish Lake & his overcoming the challenge of building a cabin & living there.

Our cruise to Ben My Chree in 2003, the same year we were last on the Yukon River & the first year we boated in a C-Dory is one of my life's more memorable events.

Jay
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AJF



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 72
City/Region: Hamlet of Mt. Lorne near Whitehorse
State or Province: YT
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that you should mention Ben My Cree. In the early 70's we spent a lot of time on Tagish Lake and down at Ben My Cree, but when we bought a sailboat we switched over to SE Alaska for next 28 years. Once we sold the sailboat we found ourselves again back on Tagish and Atlin lakes and visiting Ben My Cree quite frequently. I'm afraid the changes to Ben My Cree since the first time I visited it over 40 years ago have not been gentle on the old homestead. http://hougengroup.com/yukon-history/yukon-nuggets/ben-my-chree/
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guide book "Yukon River" by Mike Rourke arrived here several days ago & it's been interesting & fun comparing proposed routes by it to our other quide book "Yukon Channel Charts" by Bruce Batchelor with sat photos to determine which route, we will take. It's interesting to see the different routes they think are best. The sat photos have helped much in determining who's proposed route, we will follow & in some cases it will be different from either of their proposals. Also I've come across several areas where most likely the route will be, but have notations on the map saying extra caution needed & be ready for change from visual observation. It appears the most challenging navigation will be from the very braided section, where the White River joins the Yukon to very near Dawson, a distance of about 80 miles with the 20 miles below the White River junction, which also includes the joining of the large Stewart River, the most challenging of all. From looking at the sat photos in several areas the proposed routes are totally filled in by the ever shifting glacier silt from the White River & depending on river flow, bars will be hidden just under the surface by the thick silt in the flowing river no matter the chosen route. In some areas I've taken IPad photos of the sat map in series somewhat as Casey suggested for better detail when in some of these more challenging areas

As we don't have any charts or quide book routes for the 160 mile river area between Dawson, BC & Eagle, Alaska, I made a complete series of IPad photo copies from sat maps of that complete river section. The detail is poor for most of the area, but they will be better than having nothing.

With only 2 months now to possible departure our preparations are now fully underway even with the cold & snow still here in Wyoming.

We've decided to leave the Mokai at home this trip & instead will be bringing the RU 260 RIB with a just purchased Suzuki 2.5 hp motor. With the first stage of this trip involving much outside water running in the open Gulf of Alaska, off the west coast of Baranof & Chichagof Islands, where towing the Mokai could become more hazardous & no plans of river running alone in the Mokai, we felt the RIB a better choice. We haven't used this dingy since our 2004 cruise north from Prince Rupert, BC, so we were concerned about its possible deterioration, but with it having been stored 12 years in a cool dark basement, we found its condition to be near new. It's now inflated in the living room & our granddaughter Wrenny, thinks it's a great place to play with all her stuffies.

I purchased the new 2016 Suzuki 2.5 hp motor on the Internet from Cumberland Watersports Inc. for $760 with no tax or shipping fee. From my searching that's the best price I could find & if any one else is in the need they I believe have more available.

Jay
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AJF



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 72
City/Region: Hamlet of Mt. Lorne near Whitehorse
State or Province: YT
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunkydory wrote:

As we don't have any charts or quide book routes for the 160 mile river area between Dawson, BC & Eagle, Alaska, I made a complete series of IPad photo copies from sat maps of that complete river section. The detail is poor for most of the area, but they will be better than having nothing.
Jay


Hi Jay
I'm hoping this is a typo but "Dawson, BC" will not make you well respected by most Yukoners, and though Dawson's present population would not qualify it as a city by most of today's standards, at one time in it's history it would have qualified as a city. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_City

One thing both publications on the Yukon River will not tell you as well, is that there is now a ferry at Minto Landing providing road access to the Minto copper mine. The White River and Yukon River area always makes for interesting river travel. Thankfully the price of gold is down or you might encounter a lot of river traffic in that area because of the large gold deposits found in that area in past years.
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes AJF, I'm well aware Dawson is in the Yukon Territory not BC, but my two fingers tapping on this IPad don't always get the correct message out, probably something to do with all the trips through Dawson City, BC, while coming or going to the Yukon & Alaska. I can now add that to a few years ago knowing well the difference, bringing out the indignation of some fine folk in Oregon by writing, I had visited the Spruce Goose, where it resides at the Evergreen Aviation & Space Museum in Washington state, so no doubt if I keep writing about my travels or preparation for them, I'll screw up the Province or State placement of even more locations in the future.

I found your information about gold mining near Minto Landing & boat traffic to & from there interesting & if gold prices do shoot back up will be on the look out for boats along with sand & silt bars in that area.

Jay
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ghone



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
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City/Region: Nanaimo
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great trip coming up, lots of shallows
You swapping your prop for a jet o/b? Had a buddy use to run a jet boat for a river cruise outfit, said it was a good fit
Have fun! You should see lots of critters along there
George
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