Planning-Yukon River cruise 2016

[Hunkydory]

Peter, it is a major concern & I'm very appreciative of your offer to possibly store it at your place. The other concern is the safety of Jo-Lee & boat while in Dawson, while I return to Whitehorse for the truck & trailer after our run down river. On Goggle earth it shows docks on the water front of Dawson & I know there is a Campground & boat launch across the river from Dawson. Do you know if it would be OK to leave the boat in either place or anywhere else & if so, which would be best. If you or another C-Brat from the Whitehorse area can't tell me, then I'll be making some phone calls to Dawson.

It appears there are good options of either bus or air between Dawson & Whitehorse, so I will probably choose one of those with air being 1st choice, if I can get a ticket with the limited time, I will have, to know for sure when the flight will be needed.

I realize the river will be different than our last trip on it & the stretch closer to Dawson with its braids can be a real challenge, but I feel we're up to it, especially if just going down stream, though if it weren't for the high cost of fuel & packing it to the boat at Carmacks to make the run back up & if river flow was at least as high as our last trip, I would make the attempt to do it also.

Thanks for your post & offer & if nothing stops this trip from happening, I'm looking forward to meeting you.

Jay

[AJF]

The dock in Dawson has a paddlwheeler (tourist) tied up on it during the summer. Dock can be used for unloading, but not for overnight moorge. Most people just beach their boat down stream of the dock during the summer. Security is a tenative thing on the shoreline. You take your chances, most times there is no problems.
There is a real time monitoring station (web site) on the Yukon River near the White river were you can get information on river flow. Whether the the river will be high enough for unobstructed travel down it at that time of year will be dependent on winter snowpack and June weather conditions. I would expect you will probably run a ground in one of the channels at that time of year, but you could be lucky..

[Hunkydory]

AJF, thanks for the information on the Dawson dock & river monitoring site information. Do you know if near where the boats beach just down from the dock, is there a launch & retrieve place close to get the boat back on the trailer.

Do you think the chances of groundings & the results from them so bad that you wouldn't recommend a CD22 going up or down the river between Dawson & Whitehorse & if so would you say the same between Carmacks & Whitehorse. Being lucky is a good thing, but I've never based the outcome of my adventures on it. I prefer to measure all that I do with risk assessment & judge the value of what I would like to do with the level of risk to do it.

Jay

[AJF]

The shoreline below the dock is mainly hard packed river sand, and many people launch from that. There use to be a concrete ramp, but it has been many years since I've actually looked at it, so I'm not sure of the condition.
If you run aground at displacement speed on the gravel or sand bars it should not be a major issue. But I would carry a spare prop, just encase. Also at that time of year there can still be a far bit of debris in the river (trees). Remember that Minto Landing is the last point of road access to the river. Once you pass Minto you are committed to Dawson. Lots of Yukon River channel chart publications out therre, just try to find a recent one. Yukon River Quest site has some good information as well.
You will get your exercise in Carmacks hauling fuel from the gas station to the river.

[Hunkydory]

AJF, thanks once again for the added information on the river access below the dock & the rest of the information. I agree with your assessment that sticking to displacement speed is better as it does lower the chances of damage to boat or getting badly stuck in sand or gravel encounters, as I have been through this before, though fortunately not on the Yukon. I have found that going up stream at times easier & more safe than down, due to being able to use the current to maintain boat steerage while barely making way over ground below the water with it also being easier to slowly back off under control if underwater obstacles are encountered. Going down stream the main problem to avoid in my opinion is a braid off the main channel where one can becoming trapped in a log jam or anything else that prevents backtracking to regain a favorable braid. I still have my old chart book, but as you advise will be updating it & thoroughly checking out the Yukon Quest site. I always carrier extra props so that's not an issue for me. River debris is a concern, especially during or shortly after higher water & I will be doing my best to avoid it. By only going downstream, I can easily carry enough fuel to not need to stop at Carmacks for it & is something like you, I wish to avoid.

I really appreciate the good information you have provided, instead of just advising me not to attempt this effort. Just prior to our 2003 run up & back from Carmacks to Whitehorse the person who stored our vehicle & trailer at the Tagish Lake crossing Marina, when we spent several days exploring the upper end of Tagish Lake, had spent considerable time on the Yukon in a jet boat & told me we would never be able to do it in our CD22 & though a pleasant sort offered no help or further advice, when I told him we would be making the attempt.

[AJF]

When I was a young man and had first arrived in the Yukon, my dog and I did a canoe trip down the Yukon from Whitehorse almost to the mouth of the Yukon River.
I still remember how boring the Alaska part of the river was in comparison to the portion down to Dawson.
This is the access site to the hydro-metric data for the Yukon River:
https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/google_map/google_map_e.html?searchBy=p&province=YT&doSearch=Go
These pictures will give you an idea of the river front at Dawson:
https://www.google.com/search?q=yukon+river+dawson&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCgQsARqFQoTCMW3_uH51MgCFVDpYwodBcgDsw&biw=1392&bih=813#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACfweXYd172A_1IjhId9RzaSO_1WzSU0WueEYWhLOsuJE2pQvDP1tiKtbrPD3f3d5L5-ic-LiXMAksa3BXkwpPVHPSgOSoSCUh31HNpI79bEZ05EId3Do2GKhIJNJTRa54RhaERNjbQ5kIftX8qEgks6y4kTalC8BGvIhF21fnOUCoSCc_1W2Iq1us8PEYEbDXAXYb_1NKhIJd_1d3kvn6Jz4RxEhhln_1AAWIqEgkuJcwCSxrcFRFIL6tf3wo0vyoSCeTCk9Uc9KA5EU-i7uPmk8yz&q=yukon%20river%20dawson

[slowtrot]

Jay what a great plan!

We got back from a summer in Alaska in our RV. Spent some time in Chicken and drove out the gravel road to Eagle on the Yukon.. Eagle is a very nice small village with a colorful history at the end of a 60 mile gravel road that a C dory could be trailered over with no real problems. And it has gas right on the river with a store and a restaurant. You probably have been there. It would be another possible launch or retrieve site.

You could go up stream from Eagle to Dawson with lower risk against the current and either take out at Dawson or even go all the way to White Horse. My guess is that you could find someone to ferry you back to the truck and trailer from Dawson. The owner of the hotel in Eagle told me that they did not have much theft there because all the highway patrol had to do was wait at the end of the single gravel road and take them to jail. Hard to escape from Eagle.

When we crossed the ferry at Dawson there were boats tied on the gravel banks of both sides of the river and I think there were ramps on both banks. The current at Dawson was honking along in August and the boats of all kinds were crabbing across the current on their runs across the river.

I dont know if you ever tried it but Macs prop guard has worked for me and kept my prop from the rocks. You lose a little speed but it lets me go places that I would not do without it. It might help on the gravel braids. Did you take a "come along "on your last river trip and did you have to use it.

I saw a come along in a river boat on the bank and asked the owner what that was for ---big fish--- and he said no that was his unsticking tool when he grounded out. I have no idea who was kidding who. But it is something I would take on one of those Alaskan color of cement rivers that dont have enough common courtesy to stay in a regular channel for more than a few hours. They are the most random collection of confused water I have ever seen. I would not have believed how crazy they are if I had not seen so many of them.

[Northern Pike]

Jay,
I have to go on an Exercise for 10 days.
Will try to get more info about Dawson from someone who has the latest
info. I'll e -mail you when I get back.
Cheers, Peter.

[Hunkydory]

AJF, thanks for the river water level link & I throughly enjoyed the photos.

Slowtrot, it sounds like you had a super summer rv trip. We have not been to Eagle yet, but have read considerably about it & knew a guy who mined for years in the Chicken area, who could tell some fantastic tales about it. I will be working on the planning details of this trip through out the winter & Eagle has not been ruled out as part of this Yukon River cruise. It's good to know they sell fuel there on river as one option is after making it down to Dawson to continue on to Eagle & then back to at least Dawson on the river. I haven't totally ruled out either starting at Whitehorse & finishing at Eagle or going all the way down to Eagle & back to Whitehorse. Also under consideration is how much time & where to spend it out of Skagway on the ocean or skip the ocean next year & put all the time into the Yukon River & the lakes at its head.

On our last Yukon River trip we used the Mac River Runner prop protectors & also carried a come-along & shovel. On that trip they all were good insurance, but even with the high speed down river return, we would have made it without them. We had the props only make contact with the bottom twice & that was lite contact. I now have stainless skeg covers that have a small flat protector on the bottom, but not near as protective of the props as Mac River runners, but better than none. On the last run down between Whitehorse & Carmacks a distance of slightly over 200 miles we left Whitehorse at 6:30 am & arrived at Carmacks at 5:15, which is 9 3/4 hours at a average speed of 20.5 mph. Our time will not be so limited this trip & plan to drift along with enough increase in speed to maintain steerage when needed, so there should be even less chance of severe prop contact or groundings, though I will have the shovel & come-along again for insurance.

I know what you mean about those cement covered many braided rivers. I have been on several in the Mokai & they are impossible to read. Even the upper Yukon which is a beautiful color created by its glacier origins is hard to see into & for the most part must be read from the action of the water on the surface & how in general a rivers course creates deep & shallow areas. The areas where the most braids occur breaks up this normalcy & in places makes it very difficult to near impossible to read except for perhaps the very expert, which I am not.

Peter, thanks & looking forward to your emails.

Jay

[Hunkydory]

By using the satellite generated google Maps & the Bing map, weather app Wundermap on my IPad to view the Yukon River from Whitehorse, Yukon Territory to Eagle, Alaska, I've found a major help in navigating the river. At first my goal was to use the google sat map in conjunction with our "Yukon Channel Charts" by Bruce Batchelor or other river guide maps. The one by Bruce, we used in 2003 & I seriously doubt our trip then would have been successful without it. I hoped the sat view would allow us to make additional notes on the chart book to help navigate the more difficult parts of the river.

The first thing I noticed in doing this is the google maps of this area are much inferior to the Bing Maps, which was somewhat of a surprise. Using the Wundermap weather app, sparked a memory, that my Navionics IPad charts also use the Bing Map & I had found them also superior to Google. When I used the Navionics chart on the IPad here at home to look over the Yukon River, I was surprised to see the exact same images as I had been studying on the Wundermap app. Some areas are very detailed & they include the ones, I need the most in the many braided river sections. Other section have much less detail, some cloud cover or the river partially ice covered, but the amazing thing to me is the details are all good for knowing where the boat is on the river & for the most part giving advance visual notice in time to select the channel or even the best position in the channel. Of course with the changing river it's not as accurate as the chart would normally be on a ocean or lake, but still an extremely useful tool to be used with the written guide & our eyes. Our experience of often boating in areas where the charts positioning of the boat on it being inaccurate, but still helpful will be very useful in using it now on the river. I've rarely found a detail discrepancy in the electronic chart & the satellite photos should be right on if detail is good, but often I have seen a temporary loss of satellite signal from various causes & in outlying areas a misplace of the boat on the chart that is at least uniform, so one can figure out the error & know where the boat actually is on the chart. With the Yukon River definitely being an outlying area from the normal chart use, I suspect this will be the most difficult aspect of using it there.

On our successful 2003 Yukon River trip, which was practically all done at planing speed, due to limited time away from work, the most difficult part of navigating involved us continuously trying to figure out exactly where we were on the river, so we could successfully use the river guide for channel selection & boat placement in it. That trip didn't include the more difficult braided section down river closer to Dawson, so with this trip being planned for that sections inclusion, I was very pleased to see the satellite chart detail on my Navionics App & will now be checking to see if the Garmin North America rivers & lakes card on my Garmin 545 also has this satellite image detail to use. I do know my older Garmin 276C Canada topographic card will be useful too.

[AJF]

Thou satellite phone coverage is fairly good through out the Yukon. You will find in the Yukon River valley the coverage is sporadic. I've also seen a few areas on the river as well where I haven't been able to get a GPS signal lock.
I've been working with the satellite/digital imagery in the Yukon for the last couple of years (personal interest in 3d maps) and the quality of information that is available drops off once you are north of 61 degrees. Some areas have extremely good information but usually because of specific interest in the resources in the area.

[rogerbum]

Jay - I believe on the Navionics apps, the image overlays (either Bing or Google) require an internet connection. So while they may be very useful for planning purposes, I'm guessing that you won't have good mobile service in many of the areas on the water and hence won't have that imagery available in real time.

[Hunkydory]

AJF, I have used a Iridium based sat phone in the Yukon & it worked well for us, but I have heard the global star is pretty well useless there. This time I will be leaving the sat phone at home & using the Delorme In Reach, which can send & receive text & allow others to follow us in real time. It will be interesting to see how accurate & detailed the In Reach provides on our real time tracking. I would think it will be good as the user must be internet connected to view.

In 2003 our only GPS was a old Lowrance hand held. It didn't have a screen map, but it would leave a track, give speed over ground & show coordinates & it never lost contact with the satellites, but perhaps it would have, had we gone further north than Carmacks. Now with the Garmin 276C loaded with Canadian Topo maps of the Yukon River area from Whitehorse to the Alaska Border, we will have a much better idea of our position to coordinate with the map guide book, even without the satellite images I was hoping for.

Roger, of course you are right about needing a Internet connection to see the satellite images on the IPad & I jumped the gun thinking they would show without it. Thanks for enlightening me, now I can study them this winter, like I had originally planned. The Garmin 545 didn't have the sat imagery I was hoping for either.

[trackhead]

[Jack in Alaska]

Jay............

There you go again off on a trip I would love to do... All the best of luck to you and please post some info on your trip.

Jack in Alaska