delta anchor, chain rode problems

terraplane · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: delta anchor, chain rode problems

I have 150 feet of chain, LewMar 600 windlass, delta anchor, fixed roller...
The problems: the chain frequently binds and "castles" on the intake...
the anchor does not drop and i have to go forward to jar it loose.....the anchor does not set in the roller properly..it kind of swings around and comes up either upside down, or jammed on the side.
Any suggestions?

tom

Mighty Bite · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject:

Specifically, which fixed roller do you have?

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject:

Sounds like you are missing a swivel between the end of the chain and the anchor. You can get one of those back-to-back shackle style swivels for just a few bucks. You don't need one of them fancy fifty dollar jobs.

Pivoting bow roller. That's my answer to the self launch problem. A lot of people have come up with some pretty ingenious ways to get it to fall off a fixed roller, but the problems they imagine a pivoting roller causing have never been experienced by me. The pivoting roller also softens the landing a whole bunch when the anchor comes up.

El and Bill · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject:

Tom --
You definitely need a swivel and maybe a pivoting bow roller, as Tyboo Mike suggested. But, first a more fundamental question? Why do you have 150 feet of chain? Many CD-22 users have 20' of chain and 200 (or maybe 300 in Alaska) feet of line with a windlass and seldom have a problem. In the shallow muddy Chesapeake, a night of spinning on the hook in shifting winds can put a lot of twist in chain -- with many feet of chain on the bottom mud, it's not easy for it to unwind on the way up before hitting the gypsy of the windlass and bunching up -- line is more supple.

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject:

AK-Brando · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject:

As far as amount of chain, a good rule of thumb is aprox 1 foot of chain for each foot of boat length. This is what my Dad always uses and passed on to me (we commercial fish in Bristol Bay).

Of course this varies depending on whose thumb you are using at the time. Laughing

El and Bill · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:19 am Post subject:

Mike, you get a star on your forehead. El

terraplane · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: chain rode and anchor fall

When I ordered the boat i raised the question with my dealer about the all chain rode...I've been boating on the bay in large boats...36 to 40..for 30 years and always got by with a bit of chain and then line...and only about 100 feet total...
The dealer argued strongly that their package was the chain rode and that it made the boat sit on its lines better andthe weight was an advantage.

Since i was new to the c dory i let it go. But the chain does definitely twist and the anchor just doesn't lock in the roller properly.

So, my inclination is to change to the pivoting roller and maybe 20 ft. of chain and then line.

So, for the "600"...what size line and chain. Would 100 ft of line be enough?
I think the Delta i have is the smallest one...would one step up be a good idea.

thanks, as usual, for the input.

tom

rogerbum · Last edited by rogerbum on Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

Valkyrie · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject:

Hi everyone,

We just got back from 5 days at the cabin and I missed 242 posts!

We bought our 22 from the same dealer as Tom. The dealer explained that the 22 was intended to use a 70 HP outboard and 150 of chain was needed to offset the extra weight of a Honda 90!

Tom: with the Sprint 600, Delta 14, swivel installed by the dealer and pivoting bow roller (installed by the factory at my resquest), I've had no problems at all.

My only concern with this set up is the inability to secure the rode in such a way as to ride out a storm. The windlass is not built to do that and when I've tried to tie a line to the chain and then cleat that to the bow, to act a snubber to take the shock, it's tough to get anything but a sub-3/8" line through a 1/4 chain, obviously.

But with 100 feet of chain on the bottom, it would take quite a blow to take the catenary out of all that chain.

Valkyrie

Captains Cat · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject:

Tom, I've had 20-28 ft boats on the Bay for years and never used more than 15' of chain with line length that made me comfortable. Never had more than 150ft of line. I've been anchored in 60kt winds Shocked

near a shore and never dragged once. That was with a 28ft Bayliner and with a 26ft deep keel sailboat with a lot more windage than the CD 22. You can always power up and take some strain off the rode.

If you're in deeper water, you may need more line but if the wind blows that hard, you've got no business out in deep water anyway, run for it. Don't overload Sally's Sister, you'll just stress her and you! The windlass is nice but I've never had one of those. Of course, I wasn't this old before either! Rolling Eyes

Charlie

rogerbum · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject:

The reason for the longer line is to allow one to anchor in areas with rapidly sloping bottom near shore without worrying about being taken into shore on a current change or change in the direction of wind. If one has plenty of time to pick one's anchorage, there's no worry with relatively short lines. I'm mostly worried about the situation in which one has a break-down and ends up deploying anchor to hold ground in a less than ideal place (I'm imagining being pushed towards cliffs or other sharp drop-offs). Powering up to take strain off the rode wouldn't be an option in such a case.

Also, you guys also have pretty shallow tide exchanges out there so some of what I worry about doesn't concern you (unless you tow to other places) - We had a 14' tide exchange on Sat. in Seattle and the guys in AK see even more. With 100' of line in 20' of water (at low tide) the scope can go from 5:1 to 3:1 with a 14' tide change, in 15' of water the scope goes from 6.7:1 to about 3:1. IMHO, a little extra line's a good thing, especially when you've got something to do the pulling.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject:

Roger- Good thinking about the necessity of having a long anchor rode for emergencies in the Pacific NorthWest! The folks back in Chesapeake bay, however, have to look pretty hard out toward the old river channels to find anything over 30 feet deep, thus the 100 foot chain set up commonly rigged on new boats by Cutter Marine.

Tom- The above discussion has some very good ideas about the pivoting bow roller, swivel fitting, and combination chain/rope rode. All excellent suggestions. Whether or not you need to up size from the 9 lb to the 13 lb plow can only be found out by testing.

Can you drag the anchor with the power of the boat? You should be able to develop about 2000 lbs of thrust with a 90 hp engine, proportionately less with a 75 or so. I'm not familiar with the mud and sand back there, and so only local folks or a test of some kind will tell you if your hook is big enough.

Not to confuse you, but a local California Delta angler who uses a 100 ft all chain rode and the 9 lb Delta Fast set plow anchor with a swivel and a S/L 600 windlass was able to get the anchor to self-launch by adding an extra roller back near the beginning of the standard bow roller frame to tip the shaft up enough so as to cause the center of gravity to be in such a position to naturally self launch. Might be worth a try.

However, I have the S/L pivoting roller, and it works flawlessly except for the fact that I can still bring the anchor (Fortress FX-16) up sideways once in a while and have to lower it and bring it back up a time or to to straighten out.

These anchoring systems with a windlass and all the other components are a bit temperamental at first when you're still getting all the bugs out, but well worth it when you can use them over and over again later without having to get up out of the helm to do so.

Joe.

Captains Cat · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject:

As Joe said, we seldom see over 30ft here in the Chesapeake, if you have more than that, you're in a shipping channel and likely to get run over by a big guy Shocked

With 100ft of chain, you could pool it up on the bottom and not even need a hook!! Wink

I'm all for anchors/chain and line/rode combos. Have left several very heavy/expensive hooks on the bottom of the Mediterranian (that doesn't look right) Sea when the brake failed on our Destroyer and the weak link let go.... Run for it when that happens. Cry

Charlie

Levity · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject:

Tom,
Glad to hear you'll be repeating the Langford gathering. We hope to be there.
Since Levity came from Cutter it too had 150 foot of chain as the standard rode. I switched to 15 feet of 1/4 inch chain and 300 feet of 1/2 inch nylon. One of my frequent boating grounds has depths over 100 feet. 300 ft of rode only gives me 3:1 scope in 100 feet of water but in an emergency it may do. I found the chain cumbersome and rigging a snubber seemed an additional step in the anchoring procedure. Levity is equipped with the 14 lb Delta and it has set securely each deployment. Good luck and happy cruising on Sally's Sister.
Mike 'Levity'