Some advice still needed

hardee · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject:

Kushtaka, That post on survival and the 7 steps is great. I printed it off to go into my on-board boat book. It is there for guests to look through when they get bored Laughing

(Ahhh

few guests Rolling Eyes

and rarely bored Twisted Evil

There is a huge amount of worth in that posting, and anyone venturing out of sight of the marina should be looking at that to see how to apply it in any given situation, much like a pilot is always looking for the closest place for a put down, should the need arise.

Thank you for delineating those steps, and reminding us that anything can happen -- Murphy does not sleep.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

Kushtaka · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject:

Thanks. It's almost a verbatim cut and paste from my training program, but I shortened things substantially, and I might cut and paste it back sd I posted it here. More to the point, and less scary.

There are some good books as well:

Deep Survival is good, but a little but heavy on glitz and drama, sometimes at the expense of conveying good info, so take with a grain of salt:

http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Survival-Who-Lives-Dies/dp/0393326152/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428517245&sr=8-1&keywords=deep+survival

And Beating the Odds on Northern Waters is a great book, although a bit dry, and very much written for the commercial fisherman, although the info contained is very applicable, and spot on.

http://www.amazon.com/Beating-Northern-Waters-Jensen-Dzugan/dp/1566121426/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428517381&sr=8-1&keywords=beating+the+odds+on+northern+waters

You can also call the Alaska DNR Boating Safety Office and talk to my buddy Joe McCullough and see what he thinks. They have put together some excellent movies that are worth watching and they do a lot of outreach. It is a small office, but they are very very very interested in you having a safe and happy trip through Alaska.

http://dnr.alaska.gov/parks/boating/

And if you make it all the way to Cordova (nobody ever does), give me a shout!

Hunkydory · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject:

larhayden · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject:

Again, thank you for the responses. I ordered the permatrim last nite off the Shipyard Island website and it has already shipped. Also, ordered charts from Bellingham press.

Now, the prop--current prop is 3x16x21.5R. I plan to look for 3x16x17R ?
At WOT the RPM was 4000, around 20 knots. We had 6 people on the boat and about 2/3 loaded. Other improvements that added weight includes: full aft enclosure (per Brazo), engine and dinghy davit (per thataway) and 200 ft of 1/4in chain. Full with water and gas. Am still thinking of 17 inch pitch?

Trip plan includes getting to Prince Rupert early July and head for Juneau. Getting to Sitka on August 1, where we rented a house and having kids and grandkids fly in for 10 days of fishing, exploring and fun. Day trips out of Sitka. Then around the 3rd week in August--head for Prince Rupert. Not sure, but I hear the weather turns about that time. Not looking forward to towing a boat that far (SC to Prince Rupert and back), but the years are going by fast and it is either-- do it --or forget it. Hope to see some of you on the water. /Larry and Christine/

Hunkydory · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:13 pm Post subject:

Though off track from Larry's questions, this is from one who has also read many books on wilderness survival & at almost 67 years of age spent a good deal of time in the wilderness alone or with others working or for pleasure do also recommend the book Deep Survival, however more enthusiastically than Kushtaka. It has been quite a few years since I've read this book, but a major important point I remember the author brought out is how some very experienced outdoorsman will take the one step to far that leads to their doom or at least major trouble by being caught in the exhilaration & wonder of an experience in a unique moment of time. This very much stuck home to me, being it has been a major flaw in my otherwise very good survival instincts shown throughout my life & others as the author indicated are susceptible as well. Reading this book made me more aware of this tendency in me & has helped me back off from some undertakings sometimes even without Jolee's additional input. JoLee also read this book & was very impressed by it too.

Larry, you're in for a treat having chose well, Sitka as a home base for your cruise.

Jay

rogerbum · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:31 pm Post subject:

One little thing to add. I haven't traveled Alaska waters yet but I have done a bit of back country camping, offshore boating and I'm often reading forums and reports on accidents/problems. In nearly all cases, it is rarely one thing or bad decision that resulted in the problem. It is usually 2-3 or more things combined. A marginal GO/NO GO decision combined with: a worse than forecasted weather and/or some unattended maintenance issue and/or another bad decision and/or a lack of PFD's etc. are the typical things you see in a report of a problem. If you're cognizant of this, then you stop, slow down and think at intermediate stages and you rarely have a real issue. If you're not, you can get yourself into trouble. My point being, is that usually one mistake is not fatal or even a trip ender so as long as you are sensible (including with your planning), you likely don't need to worry too much. The fact that you are asking so many questions and taking advice so seriously indicates to me that you will almost certainly have a great and relatively trouble free trip. I know many of us will look forward to the report(s).

Kushtaka · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject:

Lots of great information especially from Kushtaka and Jay. 6 HP is plenty of motor for you 25. My father's sailboat was 26 feet, and very similar in hull profile to the C Dory 25 (Arc bottom, with hard chine), and weight about 50% more than the C Dory 25, and about the same freeboard, and slightly less cabin windage. ) A 5 hp outboard with low pitch prop served that boat better for 20 years better than a latter acquired 9.9 hp outboard. If you loose power in rapids or swift current (which you really don't belong in, in the first place), the well running and used 6 hp will get you out of trouble.

Bear spray and bears. Be sure and buy your Bear Spray in Canada, or get a bear spray which is certified in Canada. They will not accept some of the US bear sprays. We always carried bear spray when going ashore in the dinghy. We had two labs with us, and also carried a .44 mag. revolver in a chauffeur's type of cross draw holster with us, in the dinghy and when going ashore. I am not starting a debate about firearms, but probably not necessary, with good situational awareness--which is key in any wilderness situation. We had our firearm shipped from our firearms dealer to a dealer in AK, so it was there when we arrived, same for going home.

There were very few days we did not feel that the weather was fair enough for movement. However, if you feel that there is a question, as local fishermen, or don't move. A radio capable of shortwave reception can get the Alaskia ham nets, or better yet if you are a ham, take both HF and 2 meter gear with you--you will be in for a real treat meeting some folks in AK who are hams.

EPIRB/PLB. We carry PLB for each person. I do not feel that a Delorme or spot is equal to a PLB, because the EPRIB (&PLB) go directly to a intergovernmental/international SAT/SAR agency, who is sure to get a search started immediately. I do consider the Delorme in reach system with the 140 (?) character messages a great way to communicate with the folks back home, and to allow them to track you (especially the grandchildren)

I agree with Kushtaka's personal items, but I also carry an additional survival bag, This includes some of the personal items, as well as basic tools, including my favorite Gerber multip tool, small vise grips, extra spark plug and shear pins for the dinghy outboard, Flares, light plastic tarp, extra mylar space blankets, cig lighter, waterproof matches, A waterproof VHF, with AA battery tray, and a dozen extra AA batteries, along with a small GPS(containing topo or marine charts of the area). Hand bearing compass, Paracord, strobe and flash light and small first aid kit--bandaids, swabs in sealed containers, triangular bandage, and gauze/telfa pads, and maybe some Quick Clot. all of this in a clear waterproof bag. (I also carried a set of sweats rolled up tight in a waterproof bag which I kept in the dinghy if we went any long distance. As pointed out, if you are prepared both with gear, physically and mentally for survival, the chance you will have to face a ultimate situation is already far less!

Also there are some areas, which I would not miss, such as Ford's Terror, where you may not get good satellite reception, no VHF reception and even poor HF reception because of the very high fjord type of walls.

One "chart" which puts everything in context is the Inland Passage Cruise Guide by Coastal Cruise Tour Guides.
http://www.amazon.com/Alaska-Canadas-Inside-Passage-Cruise/dp/0961143800
This is a 6-foot long by 12-inch fold out map of the inside passage from Glacier Bay to Seattle which costs about $13.50. Great for planning and showing folks after your trip! We still have one bought in 1992, and used on each trip we have made since.

Based on what you say about your engine--you are really lugging it. I would at least drop the pitch down to 17"--you may find that you have to drop another 2"--but 17" is a good place to start. You want several props anyway.

cmetzenberg · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:22 am Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:17 am Post subject:

Again not to start a hijack about guns, boats and bears. I considered the bear spray (Counter Assault), in a large canister, 32 foot range (not much), the first line of defense, after respect, and awareness. In talking to the DFG officers at Pack Creek the bear spray is in the 98% effective range; also shown in this article:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf

There are far better weapon, than a pistol for brown bears, but I prefer a simple, reliable revolver, which is far easier to always carry and utilize than a long gun, or shot gun, and it would only be a last ditch--if necessary.

During one of our visits to Port Alexander a local had been killed by a bear not too far from the village, and almost everyone was carrying a hand gun. The range was .357 mag to .44 mag; I would rather have a .44 mag. since that is the largest caliber I can handle. I have a hot load, 310 hard cast slug. If using a hand gun, shot placement is key--and you would probably get only one shot if a Grizzly charged.

We were always careful to make lots of noise, and be very careful scanning the shore line when taking the dogs ashore. Saw lots of bears, a couple closer than I would have liked. But never had a situation where I felt a threat in AK. There are others far more qualified on bear defense than I am.

Many years ago, I was solo back packing off trail in the Sierra; food was well located off a tree limb. A black bear came by to check me out in the middle of the night. I had a .357 at that time, in the sleeping bag with me. I held my breath while the bear was close, and when it left, I relit the camp fire, and stayed up the rest of the night. Moral, keep calm and keep your wits if there is a bear encounter. An Alaskan Brown Bear is far more dangerous than a black bear.

One night we got a pretty good look at a single wolf from the dinghy before deciding to select another area to go ashore. It just sauntered off, after watching us drift for a few minutes.

NewMoon · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:09 am Post subject:

dotnmarty · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:25 am Post subject:

If you have any doubt that the trip is worth all this planning, just take a look at New Moon's photos http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Cindy-Sea&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Wow! Just beautiful...

dotnmarty · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:59 am Post subject:

Check out Sam Landsman's writeup of his trip last year from Ketchikan up to Juneau. Sam is a C-Brat and also the editor of Waggoner's cruising guide
http://waggonerguide.com/content/sam-landsmans-cruise-report-ketchikan-juneau

NewMoon · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject:

Kushtaka · Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject:

Just to be clear, after reading Dr. Bob's post, I recommend a small survival pouch on your person, AS WELL AS a larger "ditch bag" with tools, personal items, larger survival gear, first aid, etc. The stuff he listed. You keep the survival pouch on your person. You hopefully grab the ditch bag as you abandon ship.

Regarding guns: please don't bring a pistol with you if you don't already have stong proficiency with it. And I don't mean you have some experience. Be good, especially if it's a pistol. Shotguns are more forgiving to beginners, but less likely to be on your person.

A gun can save your bacon like nothing else, but can quickly escalate a situation that may pose no real risk to you, and it can make a bad situation worse very quickly in more ways than you can imagine. I never go into the backcountry without a peacemaker of some kind, and I have a veritable arsenal and use different firearms for different jobs, but I practice with them. A lot. And it is a very perishable skill. Being a great shot 10 years ago means nothing. Heck, being a great shot last summer means nothing to me.

Sorry, people get very gun happy in bear country, and it is absolutely the best tool for someone trained in its use, but have absolutely caused inexperienced carriers much more harm than good.