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smckean (Tosca)
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 Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm always amazed at how many folks have such a low opinion of the government, and endlessly complain about it (usually with anecdotal evidence); but rarely do such folks propose solutions.....other than to rely on various "invisible hands" of true believer principles, convinced that if these principles are never compromised, all problems will automagically be solved. |
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Will-C
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: New fees Proposed!!! |
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I have an idea. Why not use all the tax money generated by Washington state weed smokers to fund fixing the mussel problem. I live in one of the top ten most corrupt states Pa. I hope your faith in the government fixing everything plays out well for you.
D.D.
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B~C
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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more fees isn't going to do the trick
buying a stupid permit isn't going to do the trick
boat sterilization stations aren't going to do the trick
We need boater sterilization stations for the inconsiderate slob boaters that you see going down the road with some kind of full on garden attached to their boat 
I think we may have to get used to more fees for everything, I've already threatened some students with an aggravation fee
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Will-C
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: New fees Proposed!!! |
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I have another idea. Instead of boaters and sportsman having to clean up the mess brought upon by foreign vessels dumping contaminated ballast tanks. Why not check the ballast tanks for contaminated ballast water before letting them get into the Great Lakes. Impose fees on those ocean going vessels since that's who responsible for the problem. Imagine that the party who is responsible has to bear the burden of the expense to clean up the mess they brought here. Since it's fresh water mussel why not require that no fresh water can be used as ballast. Just salt water in which the mussels might not survive.
D.D. |
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rogerbum
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: New fees Proposed!!! |
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| Will-C wrote: | I have another idea. Instead of boaters and sportsman having to clean up the mess brought upon by foreign vessels dumping contaminated ballast tanks. Why not check the ballast tanks for contaminated ballast water before letting them get into the Great Lakes. Impose fees on those ocean going vessels since that's who responsible for the problem. Imagine that the party who is responsible has to bear the burden of the expense to clean up the mess they brought here. Since it's fresh water mussel why not require that no fresh water can be used as ballast. Just salt water in which the mussels might not survive.
D.D. |
It's too damn late for that idea. There are already contaminated lakes in the US. How do YOU propose we stop the spread? And tell me how we do that without some governmental enforcement of something? 
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rogerbum
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: New fees proposed!!! |
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| Will-C wrote: | From U.S. news
" Over the past year, the EPA has been rocked by embarrassing scandals, including revelations that a high-ranking agency official had defrauded the agency of more than a million dollars over a decade by impersonating a CIA agent, an employee was caught watching porn for six hours a day on the taxpayer dime (and who received a performance bonus), and widespread reports that employees at the EPA’s office in Denver had repeatedly used a hallway as a bathroom".
D.D. |
Written by an author - William Yeatman - who works for a foundation - the Competitive Enterprise Institute - that seeks to reduce or eliminate any government regulation.
Those who think all government regulation and specifically the EPA are bad are encouraged to breathe the kind of air that is present in large cities in China and which would be present in large cities in the US had it not been for clean air regulations put in place in the 70's and updated regularly since then. Does anyone remember what LA skies looked like in the late 60's and early 70's? |
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Will-C
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: New fees Proposed!!! |
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| I'm not opposed to try and prevent the spread. It's my opinion that the money exists to combat the spread of the mussel if it's as bad as it's been stated. I never said everything the EPA did was wrong but where are they on this matter? It is the environment and they are the protection agency right? Some folks, me included think the EPA has gotten a little out of control on some issues. If you don't shut off the source of the mussels how will you continue to keep them from spreading. My objection is to go after sportsmen and boaters for having to foot the bill for a problem they did not create. Certainly the shipping companies who traverse our inland waterways could be held accountable? Make them fund the clean up by raising their fees. Every time there is a problem no matter who creates it will it be the sportsmen and boaters are required to fund the clean up? |
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rogerbum
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: New fees Proposed!!! |
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| Will-C wrote: | | I'm not opposed to try and prevent the spread. It's my opinion that the money exists to combat the spread of the mussel if it's as bad as it's been stated. I never said everything the EPA did was wrong but where are they on this matter? It is the environment and they are the protection agency right? Some folks, me included think the EPA has gotten a little out of control on some issues. If you don't shut off the source of the mussels how will you continue to keep them from spreading. My objection is to go after sportsmen and boaters for having to foot the bill for a problem they did not create. Certainly the shipping companies who traverse our inland waterways could be held accountable? Make them fund the clean up by raising their fees. Every time there is a problem no matter who creates it will it be the sportsmen and boaters are required to fund the clean up? |
Now there's an idea in there -e.g. charge the shipping companies for the cost of mitigating the problem. As for shutting off the source - at this point recreational and sport boaters are the primary source for the spread. Admittedly, they didn't create the problem but they are now part of the problem and its their (our) boats that need to be decontaminated when we move from quagga infested waters to other places. Of course, such fees to the shipping industry will ultimately be passed on to the consumer (and I'm fine with that - but I'm willing to bet that industry would not be). The points IMHO are: 1) we need effective decontamination of boats that move from quagga infested waters to other places; 2) that the majority of such boats are recreational and sport boats (for example there's not a lot of commercial shipping on Lake Powell) 3) There needs to be some way to fund that decontamination and enforce that it happens (when the word enforcement is used, it implies some governmental involvement) 4) Any useful solution will likely inconvenience the recreational boater since it's difficult to keep track who is and is not a suspect for contamination and 5) Whoever has to pay will likely complain. |
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smckean (Tosca)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Strangely, these various arguments from all ends of the spectrum reminds me of the Ebola epidemic (including the international implications). |
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anchorout
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:11 pm Post subject: taxes |
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I understand that the tax money will be placed in a "lock box" and funds will only be used for the purpose expressed in the bill.
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jkidd
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BrentB
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smckean (Tosca)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Good article. Shows you what a committed scientist with some help from government funding can do. |
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thataway
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Certainly a dedicated scientist. Excellent work. But the article does not say what % of the grant was from Government, and private sources. Many seed and early development grants are from private/commercial sources.
The other issue, is taking what is effective in the lab, and translating that into a practical solution on the lakes--and to prevent the spread of the infestations to other areas? Second what side effects may come from increased concentrations of the bacterium which is effective on the muscles on other biological systems which have not been adequately tested? For example the bacteria is a variety of Pseudomonas which can be a human pathogen.
Hopefully this type of work will bring results, but the fact remains that the best way to prevent spread is for boaters to be aware, and take adequate precautions, even without inspections and fees.
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MilesandMiles
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure which parasite is more dangerous: the invasive species or the government "saving" us from them via endless taxation and harassment. |
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