Anchor Rehash -- New Anchor – Vulcan

[hardee]

After spending most of a day and several pieces of the night, going back over the Anchor forum back to Oct of 2003, and searching under Rocna, Manson (Supreme) and Delta, Fast Set, CQR, and Bruce and as many other variations as I could think of, I found some very interesting information.

Going back in time, the original new and best was the Bruce, (a splayed flange type called a claw), followed in a few years by the Delta, (a plow version), and recently a popular trend is the Manson Supreme or another version of a spade, the Rocna, which has a roll bar.

There is usually some consideration given to the geographical location of use, and from that, some deference to substrate is assumed.

There is often discussion about the rollers, swivel or not, and much about the windless, (sometimes called wench or winch).

The bottom vegetation, or lack of, is also mentioned as having an effect on the gripping and holding capability.

Being somewhat logical, and some a believer in physics, and having spent some time in my early youth, farming, I have some anchor observations:

1. The shape of the anchor has a lot to do with how well it works.
2. Different anchors work better in different situations – i.e., bottom make-up.
3. Any substrate is likely to hold better when compacted rather than dispersed or divided.
4. Any anchor will probably work better when coupled with some chain. The chain length adds weight to hold the anchor down, applying the force parallel with the substrate surface.
5. Using an anchor that is working (popular and used) in an area is not a bad idea.

So let’s talk shapes a bit.
1. Flukes, dig in an hold, deeper depending on the angle. (Fortress or Danforth)
2. Claw, lighter than plow, can turn without losing “set”. (Bruce)
3. Plow, good holding on various bottoms, rapidly digs in for “set”. (Delta)
4. Spade, lighter than claw or plow, shaped to compact substrate under tension. (Rocna or Manson)
5. There are others, mushroom, grapnel, and kedge.
• From: http://www.boatus.org/guide/navigation_31.html


Not being an expert anchorer, and in truth, not anchoring very much, but now looking at more opportunity for doing just that, I am doing some research in that field, in preparation for some field practice. In doing that a ran across…….. guess what…….. YUP, a new anchor.

Made by the same manufacturer as the “Rocna”, which looks like a Delta shaft on a spade blade, with a roll bar, the Rocna has found fair acceptance in the new anchor swing. (A similar style, the Manson Supreme appears to have had more success, at least in the C-Brat arena) and both are using the spade blade instead of the plow.)

Is the thought pendulum swinging? Or are the physics just now getting through and we are catching up?

The Rocna manufacturer is now producing a second version, sans roll bar, wider spade and different shaped (more rounded curve on the shaft) anchor called the “Vulcan”. I saw it at the SBS and have been reading what I could about it. Wonder if anyone else noticed it, and what your thoughts were?

Harvey
SleepyC

[cmetzenberg]

Looks like a good soft bottom anchor. I'm still using the delta that came with my boat. I'd ditch for a 22lb bruce in a heartbeat, but not that lewmar claw crap.

[Chester]

I ditched the Rocna simply because I was tired of having its rollbar in my sight line.
Replaced it with a Manson Boss which seems to work well.

[Molly Brown]

Harvey....Having anchored out way more than not, regardless of which anchor you may settled on, nothing beats hanging one of these on your anchor line. I've had one now for 10 years, we have NEVER dragged or had an anchor pull out since using one. I generally only deploy it for the final anchoring of the day but have used it during the course of the day where the holding is suspect. I call it my little sleep aid and I lay down at night with confidence. See this link for more info.

http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/

[Will-C]

We use a 25 pound Manson Supreme 50' of chain because we have windless and anchor in shallow water mostly so we don't often have to deploy our nice $$ eight plait rode to get chewed up by the by windless. As some might have surmised I see more weight being part a good strategy on our main anchor. The Fifty feet of chain is our anchor buddy. For me, that's just one more thing I don't want to deal with storing etc. but to each their own. We used to have a 14lb Lewmar knock off which was part of the original boat deal. It did not hold in some situations especially in the Florida keys. We carry a light weight seven pound aluminum Fortress anchor for back up with 25' of chain. We have never used it in five years. But people speak well of the Manson products beside some galvanizing issues. I have seen a lot of good reports on the Manson anchors both the Supremes' and the newer Boss models . I see a lot of them on bigger sailboats. Have not used it all that much yet but it has never dragged so far and it did well in the same areas where the fake 14 pound Lewmar did not. Brian Williams said he has one on his boat and loves it to pieces, but can you really believe him?
D.D.

[Aurelia]

The Vulcan design really seems to be born from a desire to fit more boats than the original Rocna could with it's roll bar. I think it was designed to best mimic the behavior of the Rocna by adding aids to keep from rolling as well as better roll-reset response than a simple plow type.

We often find ourselves anchoring on the fringe of bays outside the anchoring circles of larger boats and this has led me to discover two factors that led me to pick a Rocna instead of the claws we used in the past.

Along the shallow edges of anchorages there are often beds of grass and these seem to be even thicker and more common as we venture further north. The claw anchors skate on top of the grass too much and have trouble setting. The Rocna parts the grass and does it's digging easily.

Also along the edges of anchoring bays/coves there are often significant underwater slopes that cover large portions of seabed. Now I do use the charts and 3D plotting on the sonar to see the slopes and I could flat out avoid them but sometimes I like to drop anchor on a less than flat surface. The roll and reset design of the Rocna (I feel) gives it better/quicker setting performance on these slopes where many other designs weighted for level surface use might drag and slide without setting for longer intervals and limit effectiveness on sloped bottoms. I don't usually pick a serious slope for overnighting but it is nice to throw the anchor just once and have it hook up without running forward again and throwing multiple times as we have experienced with claws in these situations.

I still do carry two small claws with short chains and weights that we use with the stretchy anchor buddies in a variety of situations. They work well enough for those situations and the level of holding expected.

Greg

[NewMoon]

[starcrafttom]

http://www.sanjuans.org/pdf_document/eelgrass_map.pdf

for Greg and everyone else.

[Aurelia]

Good point Tom and we do try and avoid it visually but we still seem to find it from time to time. I actually tried it in grass under shallow water once so I could watch it and proved to myself what was happening. The claw sure did skate well. My new downvision sonar might help with that. I need to run the sonar screen more often.

I checked out the map and could not help but dig a bit more. I saw those fuzzy lines and blobs in bays and shorelines and it all seemed a little to convenient. Not downplaying the importance of eelgrass or saying we shouldn't respect it but when it comes to maps, I take things in a little more or less serious than most. I am one of the pros behind the scenes enabling this type of data to be collected and displayed. Everyone has an agenda but this map is a little reaching. It does not claim it but I think they leaned on a regional shoreline riparian survey and also a habitat prediction model that has admitted flaws as well.

So here is a sample of the actual point source data compared to the resulting map. The eelgrass data points also have a serious bathymetric accuracy weakness that is described in the metadata so I was surprised to see the map trying to use any depth directive at all. I wouldn't have done it.





Reminds me of a book that I consider required reading for any geographer.


http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Maps-2nd-Edition/dp/0226534219#

Back to Anchors...... How about the Ultra Anchor? Sure seems similar to the Vulcan.

http://www.quickline.us/stainless-steel-anchors.aspx

Greg

[hardee]

As you can (or cannot tell) from the pix on my original post, I have some chain. Actually 70 feet, and it provides considerable down weight for the anchor, (which is now a Delta Fast-set), and also a fair amount of shock protection. I think that is due to the ratio of chain weight compared to the boat weight.

The main difference I could see from the Vulcan to the Boss was the roundish shank instead of the more straighter (more like the delta or rocna) shafts.

I did like the wider spade blade, almost like a tractor seat, and also that when it lands on the bottom it will not stand on end like a rocna. It appeared to reset very rapidly as well, but I think that has to come from more use rather than from a sales demo.

The note to zoom in the plotter and watch the track is a very good idea. Thanks for that one too.

That Ultra is $$Nice$$ but they got to get out of the $tainle$$ version.

Harvey
SleepyC

[starcrafttom]

Greg, I have no doubt about the cover of eel grass being exaggerated as are many things in these water for others purposes. Nice to see the real data.

[thataway]

I have written a lot about anchors in the past, and will not repeat all that has been written. The Valccon was developed after Ronca saw the success of the Boss--and is basically the same type of anchor.

As many know, I used the way "undersied" boss 10 lb anchor exclusively at Lake Powell for a month this summer. It held, in a number of places and in conditions up to 40 + knots where the Delta had drug.

I used the CQR (genuine--imitation plows do not work anywhere nearly as well) for mnay hundreds of nights --well over a thrusand in many parts of the world on my larger cruising boats. I had several large HT Danfoeths (70 lbs)for the times that the CQR drug (a very few times). I also carried a 150 lb Lukie 3 piece Fisherman Anchor--with 1/2" chain--and 1" rode. (never had to use it). I have anchored in hurricane force winds a number of times--including up to docuented 135 knots. I can assure you that at some point a Kellet with heavy chain will come off the bottom, and there will be no cantanary to take up "surge" You must have snubbers (or light line tor slock absorbers in the line)--a weight on the chain will not cut it in really heavy stuff. Also there can be issues getting a kiellet up, especially if it snags under a lug, or coral head./ Cable.

You have to have the right anchor for the conditions. Fortress did some very good studies (not well publicised ) this spring-0-and their anchors did by far the best in mud, expeciallly in the 45 degree second position.

For the C Dory size and type of baot, I am convinced that the Boss (or valcun) type are the best current light weight anchor. There is still a place for Fortress/Guardian achors. Now carry the Boss, with 50 feet of h T chain, 300 feet of brait, and extra 200 feet of 3 strand 1/2" line. We heve 3, 6/7 lb Fortress, wth 3/8 and 5/16" line, with light chain--about 40 extra feet--enough to go around trees, rocks etc. We did carry the 14 lb Delta Fast set this last summer---we wil leave it at home in the future. There may still be some placces for a plow type.

There is another reason to carry more than one primary ancchor. It will not happen often, but if you anchor enough, you will have to cut and run to sea if you are in marginal holding ground. One night we had to cut and leave on the bottom over $2,000 worth of anchors, chain and rode. We had a 60 lb CQR back up, as well as a 40 lb Hi test Danforth to back up the 70lb we had to leave on the bottom. We were able to find and retieve the anchors we cut loose the next day. But it was sure good to have anchors to use after the storm passed and we were able to sarely anchor again.

[hardee]

For sizing, I would probably lean on the next size up, generally what is recommended for a 26 ft.
For the Manson Boss that would be a 15#
For the Rocna Vulcan that would be a 13# for to 26ft or
For the Rocna Vulcan that would be a 20# for up to 30ft

Considering that I carry 50+ feet of chain, I am thinking that the 20# is maybe overkill. But I think the 13# might be light. Maybe that is why the Manson Boss has become the more frequently chosen. I wonder if it has anything to do with the Patented Manson Shackle Preventor and the long slider slot available.

Again, as with so many things, the good the bad and the ugly is that there are so many choices.

Harvey
SleepyC

[journey on]

Another anchoring thread, discussing some new anchors with some good advice. How about that. And I spent some of my time as a youth ranching, which really meant shoveling after various animals: horses, cows, chickens. So I understand BS.

I would like to emphasize several things Bob mentioned, just to make sure they get noticed. If I don't convey his message correctly, it's my fault. And my opinion.

First, he used a Danforth as a backup to a CQR. Yes a plow (CQR) will drag in mud or soft sand, whereas a fluke (Danforth,) will hold. And on top of that (Boris speaking) a Danforth/Fortress will dig into grass and especially kelp when the other anchors will not. And Bob carried both a primary and backup anchor, as well as several others. Note that each was of a different type. I carry a Danforth type for kelp, here in SoCal, and a Lewmar Bruce type for mud in the PNW. The CQR is good for rocks and coral. Also note that Bob carries a lot of chain. Chain does not "help" an anchor, it's mandatory. Just try setting an anchor without chain, once.

I've never anchored in a hurricane, thank God, but I've anchored in some sketchy places, using a CQR, Danforth, Lewmar/Bruce (not all at once.) All standard types and when they didn't hold, there was a reason. So each anchor for its purpose.

Boris

[starcrafttom]

I have to agree about the chain for any anchor. I had trouble dragging with a delta until I added more chain. Never dragged again in the 22. I added 20 ft of chain. On the 27 I have never dragged with the same delta anchor and 75 ft of chain. I have anchored in sand, weed and rock. Even on top of salmon bank in a 5 mph current. Never dragged since adding the chain.