Questions about '82 22ft CDory with transom-area damage

d&linAK · Last edited by d&linAK on Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hi all, this is my first post (and potentially fist boat!) so thanks for your patience with my slight lack of boat-related vocabulary.

I've been looking into buying a 1982 22ft CDory in town. The main problem that I can see with it is in the transom area - not where the engine is attached, but the box-structure that extends forward onto the deck that holds the batteries seems to be very compromised. There are cracks where the two vertical sides of the box intersect with the deck, cracks that expose the wood core on one side, and most of the holes in this box-structure (if there's a more official term for this let me know...) seem to be simply bored through and un-sealed, exposing the bare wood core. I've probed the cracks and holes with a piece of wire, and rot seems to extend quite far, up to 6" around some holes. It seems like if I were to buy this boat I might need to entirely replace this part of the boat.

My questions for 'yall are these: Does the wood core of this box structure extend down into the hull and transom where the rot might have penetrated? How structurally essential is this box to the transom? Any idea what it might cost for a DIY replacement of this box? (I envision cutting it away at the deck and transom and completely re-building the structure)

Thanks so much! I'll try to post some pictures soon.

Here's a short album showing the area - the boat could definitely use a good cleaning, but I hope this clarifies what I'm referencing:

http://imgur.com/a/ee8sH

thataway · Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject:

Wow, you are looking at a real classic. Welcome aboard. I am not an expert on those early boats, but I would be worried about the transom itself. You will want to do moisture check (moisture meter) on the transom, and if any screws into the transom, remove it (hopefully allowed by the seller--explain the importance of this). See if any moisture in the transom, by this area being wet, and probe with a small piece of wire, or my favorite, an ice pick.

As I understand it that wood is not structural--and I may be corrected. I have seen many boats where this has been rebuilt, and a better cabinet set made. The plywood should be tabbed into the sides of the hull. I would use epoxy and also cover all of the wood with glass/epoxy--saturate the edges of the wood with epoxy and then class them.

Also look for moisture in the bottom of the boat. Many of the early boats were plywood core. Some have had rot, and the core replaced. Not that expensive if you do it your self--and the boat will be good for another 50 years! The moisture meter is your friend here. Look for screw holes, and places where water may have gotten thru the glass.

Classics are neat boats.

Let us know how it comes out!

d&linAK · Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject:

Thanks! I've been really excited about this opportunity, but I'm trying to determine if this is a dealbreaker and/or something that should significantly reduce the offer I make on the boat - as I said the rest of the hull seems pretty solid, still has fairly new-looking cushions for the v-berth, new VHF radio, new GPS, a 90H 4 stroke Yamaha with 200hrs, a brand-new 8H 4 stroke Yamaha kicker, and it includes a trailer with new tires/wheels. Asking price is $17,000. I've been told by friends to offer $12. and don't go for more than $15?

Also when I remove screws to look for moisture should I bring something to re-seal the screws? If so what would be best?

Thanks again!

Larry H · Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject:

The core of the transom is balsa in the early 22's. This core can turn to mush if saturated with water. Repair can cost $3,000 or more. It is important to determine if the transom core is saturated.

If the motor mount bolts are tightened on a saturated core, the fiberglass faces will compress, dishing around the bolts/washers. If you see this, further investigation is needed, including removing one (or more) of the motor mounting bolts to determine core integrity.

Check the outer edges of the hull where it meets the bottom. Look for cracks or wear which exposes the plywood core. Probe any cracks with a wire or pick.

If there is a depth sounder transducer on the transom, one of those screws can be removed to check for water. If water drips from the hole, there is a problem. Reseal any removed screws with 3M 4000 or 4200. Don't use 3M 5200 as it is a permanent adhesive. Don't use silicone seal as it will leak.

SENSEI is a member here who has had the transom on a 22 classic rebuilt due to rot. There may be photos in his album.

potter water · Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:32 am Post subject:

In my opinion, and having looked at several 15,000.00 older C-dorys before I bought mine, this one is way over priced. Your 17 grand can buy your a cleaner and less questionable boat if you take more time to look around. I'd say your friends are correct about the 12 grand price. There is certainly major labor for you to do. I once restored an all fiberglass bodied sports car and developed some skills. If you don't have some pretty good skills, you will have to depend on a shop at retail costs. you can easily have several thousand more dollars in the boat to get it sea worthy. If you have the skills, then the material costs or insignificant and the boat might be a bargain then at 12 grand or so. In either case, getting a qualified surveyor will save his fee and maybe save you many thousands if there are other significant problems with the boat. The boat looks like it has been "rode hard and put away wet" as my horsey friends like to say.

thataway · Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:00 pm Post subject:

After looking at the pnotos, I agree that 12 K is where you want to be pricce wise. I hope that the rest of the boat is not that rough....

What year is the motor--compression? Leak down tests?
Electronics?

I would be re building that aft section--to make it more fnctional and safer.

KickerDRB · Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject:

If you have the time, knowledge and shop space, it will be a fun project. Take a hard look at the fuel and wiring system also. They may need to be replaced. If you have to pay a shop for the repairs keep looking for another boat.

Last fall there were a handful of '04 - '07 22ft cruisers for sale in the 36k - 40k range here in Alaska. You could run one of these for a few years and not loose much in depreciation. The '82 will always be a 12k boat no matter what you put into it. Not that there is anything wrong with a project, it just is what it is.

regards,
Dave

d&linAK · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject:

I really appreciate all the advice everyone! I've had a few chances to spend time looking carefully at the boat - I removed a few small screws in the transom to look for rot and for me it's hard to tell what's there. Water doesn't seem to drip out but the fact that there are at least a dozen or so old screws in both the inside and outside of the the transom makes me question it's integrity. The next step will be to take out one of the motor mount bolts for a better look at the core of the transom. There are big pieces of plastic (looks like 1/2" thick pieces of cutting board) that function as washers between the transom and the bolt-heads - they're a little dished out but I wonder if that's a function of the softer plastic compressing as opposed to the bolts being tightened on a saturated core.

Dave: At least to my untrained eyes the wiring and fuel systems look decent - clean and organized without noticeable wear. As far as making it a project boat goes I mainly have lots of enthusiasm and friends who would help, but I am currently lacking on the knowledge and shop space fronts. I would Love to invest in a quality newer model boat but financially that's really not in the works.

Thataway: the 90H is an '06 with around 200hrs on it, the 8H kicker is a new '13 that's only been in the water once.

At this point I think that it would take a combination of good circumstances (available work space) and a big drop in price for me to go for this one. I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks again!

AstoriaDave · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject:

Those bolt heads should have a metal washer under them to spread the load over the plastic. If the plastic is indented from the bolt head, likely there is some degree of failure underneath.

Not worth commissioning a survey, but can you get someone familiar with fiberglass boat repair to come look at this boat?

johnr · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject:

One nice thing about the 82 is that it's a very, very simple boat to work on, even for c-dory's, which are already known for being basic, simple boats to work on. It's really just a shell. As far as I know, there are no internal gas tanks, no plumbing, no anchor locker, no wires that are impossible to get to. Additionally, those motors are basically brand new (hours-wise). If you pay 12K, you're basically buying the motors and getting a boat for free.

thataway · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject:

I agree that the age and hours logged on the engines, make the boat a better buy, and I might go up a few bucks---It will be a good combination. There was an 82 (I believe) boat at Powell this year. It really looked nice. But has been well cared for.

rogerbum · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:41 am Post subject:

Another factor to consider is that the boat is already in Alaska. Depending on where the poster is located, the cost of getting another boat to Alaska can range anywhere from $1k-$3k. So, the pricing there should probably be a tad higher than what us in the lower 48 are used to.

Kushtaka · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject:

I picked up my turn key 1993 CD22 Cruiser with a 2003 Honda BF90 and a 2011 Tohatsu 9.9 kicker (about 450 hours) in Alaska for $20k in pretty nice shape. It has the regular issues, fuel tanks and other fixtures bolted to the deck without being sealed as well as they could, cracks in the lazarette hatches. Most of the CDs I've seen in state have either been immaculate, or trashed. Mine was one of the few that was well taken care of, but not overly fussed over. But there must be others out there.

It had older electronics I've replaced, and the galley/counter/heater is weird, so I'll be handling that. I also added a windlass (and anchor locker drain).

My point is, I would rather spend a bit more money up front for a boat that had good care and was ready to run than save a little on the purchase, only to spend the difference on repairs. But, you are getting a free boat here, as was already pointed out... Almost.

Regarding shipping to Alaska if you buy a boat from Outside, there is always an opportunity in March and April. Many large fishing boats (mostly tenders) will be coming up from the lower 48 to fish herring and salmon in the Spring and Summer. They are generally empty, and can carry huge amounts of cargo. Many tender captains will take cargo up North for beer money, and a CD22 would be no problem to deck load and move North. If this is something you might consider, you should contact canneries nearest you ASAP and express your interest. You will have to follow up, most likely, until you get put in touch with some captains, but then it's a pretty sweet deal.

It's not a perfect solution though, most likely your boat will not be insured as cargo, and so if they sink, or lose your boat in a storm you may have a tougher time with insurance, etc., but that is not something that happens often. These are professionals running commercial vessels.

Finally, if you do decide to buy a boat from Outside that does need work, you may do better getting that work done Outside, versus bringing it North for work to be done here. But then you can't keep an eye on it.

Ahhh, boats. Nothing but tradeoffs!

Chris Bulovsky · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject:

17K seems pretty darn steep for 33 year old boat with issues. If you like the boat and the engines are tip top a 9-10K offer would be in-line. That way you could buy a pressure washer for starters and start getting it sea worthy. I hope not to offend the seller but this has a plywood core that could be in a bad way. If it is walk away.

I would take on project like that boat but with little financial risk. Certainly not 17K.

Check it for a wet core and base decisions on that.

Good Luck
Chris

tbag · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject:

Here is another data point for price in AK. I purchased a 89 cruiser with a 2 stroke Yamaha 115 (that motor made the boat fly!!) and a 8hp Honda and the original ezloader trailer in Juneau 3 years ago for $13.5K. The hull was in good shape except for the screw holes in the deck for the fuel tanks and bilge. those got ditched immediately. Simple but up to date electronics, and some fishing gear were included. I think I got a pretty good deal and have been slowly improving the boat. 4 stroke main, wallas stove, new fuel tanks, new radio ect.

my opinion is that even $12k is too high for that boat. I would be more comfortable sub $10k unless part of the reason to buy the boat is to repair it for fun. there certainly can be a premium for C-dorys in AK. I have had folks offer to buy my boat at the launch ramp. Good luck man.