buying new boat

Linemanrj · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject: buying new boat

I am thinking about buying a 22 center console 2008 c-dory ,will be fishing mostly the west coast of Vancouver island.Is this a good choice,what can I expect for cruising speed with a 90hp four stroke.I have read that you have to slow in a chop? how slow do you have to go,is this in any chop,one foot,two or three? comments would be appreciated

hardee · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:26 am Post subject:

Linemanrj,

Welcome to the C-Dory is a flat bottom boat, that is very capable, quite seaworthy and very economical. Every boat design has limitations, and all boats are a compromise. To achieve the fuel efficiency, the boat bottom has to meet certain specifications. In the case of the C-Dory, the flat bottom increases the fuel efficiency, and creates some limitations in the area of speed and ride. Yes, they will pound if you are jumping from the top of one wave onto the back of the next. Most of us use Trim Tabs, or a Permatrim (device that mounts on the out board, increasing the horizontal surface area of the anti-cavitation plates and allowing the engine tilt to affect the fore and aft trim of the vessel.) This allows for the bow to be forced down into the waves and smooths the ride considerably in chop of the 1-2 foot variety. Of course this is also somewhat dependent on your speed.

My thinking, (and I am not a fisherman) is why would you want a center console (ie open bow), boat on the west side of Vancouver Island? You may be a much better boater than I am, (I do not claim to be great, perfect, skilled, or adept my any means), me just being an average joe boat driver, but I have been caught twice where I have been guilty of stuffing the bow into a wave and have had solid green water up to the doghouse, and once over the forward hatch. All I could think of at the time was that I was really glad the hatch was closed, the front center window was closed and that I had a roof over our heads. I shudder to think what could have resulted were we in an open boat.

Now I know there are folks who go out there in Boston Whalers, and (heaven forbid, even Livingstons) but it would not be my choice. Would I go out there in my 22 Cruiser? Yes, absolutely, but the fore hatch will be closed and the center window will be also.

As to the '08 Center Console, I know a guy here who uses on on a regular basis, in all kinds of weather, because he makes his living with it, commercial crabbing in Juan de Fuca and Salish Sea. He uses it because he says it will get him back to the dock.

There will be other comments, and from some who know much more about the technical aspects too, so take my opinions with about 5# of salt and see what shakes out. After almost 8 years on my 22, I am getting so I feel pretty much at home there and fairly comfortable with what I can handle on it. I am also pretty sure, it would handle a lot more than I would want to ride.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

hardee · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:26 am Post subject:

Sorry, Duplicate post.

Embarassed

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

westward · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:53 am Post subject:

Greetings.
It's hard to imagine a boat less well suited to its intended use than what you describe. You will freeze. You will pound. You will go very slow. The boat you're considering might have an appropriate use somewhere, but definitely not for fishing the West Coast of Vancouver Island. Sorry to be so negative on this but do yourself a favor and give this decision more time and research. Best, Mike.

journey on · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject:

We've taken Journey On to Vancouver Isle's West Coast. I will say that when we headed north out of Barkley Sound to Clayquot Sound the boat pounded, and we were passed by a guy in a runabout, just hitting those waves. He was underwater a couple of times, but just kept on going. We slowed down and listened to the glass rattle as we hit each sea. Coming back was great. We trailered up to Nootka.

That said, most fishing we saw were inside the sounds: Clayquot, Barkley and Nootka. Thousands of fisherpersons (men and women) just fishing the heck on the water. And if you stay in the sounds, that center console is great: sturdy, light and open. Most important, trailerable, if there's such a word. That way you can go from sound to sound and stay inside. Good launching in each sound.

If you want to go outside and fish, I'd get a deep-V with at least 200 hp on the rear (actually the ones that passed us had 2 ea 200 hp motors, but they were in a hurry,) and some sort of cabin to break the water coming over the bow. Doesn't need to be C-Dory size, just to keep the helmsman safe and water out of the boat.

Here's the catch from Nootka:. That gal is thrilled and the boat is just like the C-Dory.

Boris

ghone · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject:

I live here and can't for the life of me see owning an open boat for our waters. A C Dory 22 Angler is what you are looking for if you want a c dory. Same hull but you need a pilot house. The centre console boats are for warm waters. Like California, Texas and Florida. Or here for 2 weeks in August. Conditions change quickly at sea and you will want a pilot house and heat. If you want a cc boat for the west coast, go Grady White, or similar. They go 30 plus through heavy seas and get you out and back before lunch time. Spend the dough be happy. Get 25 ft and big twins or triples like what we see out in Tofino or Ucluelet. It's been perfected for sport fishing. All the best. George

Lollygaggin · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:11 pm Post subject:

We grew up fishing in the Pedder Bay area in 12' aluminum boats with 9.9hp engines on them. We definitely got wet, and got caught in a few back eddies, and had livin' daylights scared out of us more than once, but it is possible to fish those waters in a small open boat. If you don't want to be quite so dependent on the weather then you should go with a hardtop of some sort. If you want to venture more than a km off shore you'll probably need some big horse power too. Good luck with your purchase.

thataway · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject:

You can expect cruising speed in the mid 20's if the boat is proped correctly and kept light---high end for the CC would be about 32.

I Agree, that the CC is not a boat for the PNW. There is a very good reason that the CC is popular in FL, and the pilot house is popular in the PNW.

I have an 18 foot CC Catmaran, and use it for fishing from th Keys to Pensacola, where I live. I would not consider it a good boat for the PNW. We have fished out of a 12 1/2 foot RIB--OK, but good for crabbing, shrimping etc--most of real fishing from a larger pilot house boat.

starcrafttom · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:05 am Post subject:

ok so the non fisherman have chimed in with tales of doom and flooded boats. From a fishing stand point you could not ask for a better boat. Given a choice I would rather fish a open boat every day of the week. Having a cabin just reduces the amount of room to fight a fish.

all boats are weather dependent to a point. A open boat more so then a closed bow boat. If you are running a open boat then you are not considering over nigthing and don't have to worry about weather coming in over night. Water off the florida coast is just as ruff then off the Vancouver coast on some days. hell they have hurricanes there. If open boats will work there then they will work here. Only really down side is temperature and you can dress for that. I duck hunt in -10 weather in a open boat in 30 knots of wind and I don't get cold because I dress of the weather.

This boat will handle like any cdory in the same weather. I might go out in worse weather in my 27 then I did in my 22 or you will in a open 22 but who wants to fish in that shit anyhow.

westward · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:37 am Post subject:

Tom: Don't confuse common sense advice with gloom and doom. If an open CC boat is such a good idea for day fishing the West side of Vancouver Island wouldn't you expect the guides there to favor them, to maximize fishability for their clients? Might you be talking more out of theory than actual experience given your personal choice of boats? Florida is a wee bit warmer than Western Canada. Mid December I went blackmouth fishing at Jeff Head with a buddy in his open CC running out and back from the locks. I was dressed for skiing including my Sorel's and a balacalva under a thinsulate cap and multiple layers under gore-tex shells. So much bulk it was hard to move. We nailed the salmon that day but I absolutely froze my ass off, and I'm a pretty hardy guy. I took a hot shower when I got home but still couldn't get warm. Thank heaven it wasn't raining or we might have gotten pneumonia. Still fishing might have been OK but we were already chilled cause running at speed was brutal. (I'm sure my wife would never agree to that kind of boating). In your duck hunting scenario the wind chill temperature is -40 degrees: good example, just not in support of your argument. You can certainly attest to how absolutely draining it is when you're exposed to a cold wind all day. The original poster is asking for input prior to making an expensive (and potentially very unwise) purchase. We have to assume he wants honest and practical advice, not hyperbole. When he later goes to sell the boat he will certainly find a soft to non-existent market in this region. If he chooses to buy the boat anyway then we can wish him all the best and accentuate the positive aspects, etc.

rogerbum · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject:

I fish quite a bit and probably as much as anyone on this site. While I agree that there are certain advantages to a walk around boat while fishing, I think very few of those apply to the fishing done in the PacNW. Only when I've fished for salmon in a river, have I ever had a need to work the salmon around the bow of the boat. In the ocean, I've always been able to control the position of the boat relative to the fish with a little throttle and steering. Even big hali haven't been a problem. Tuna caught while trolling or drifting have not been a problem either. I can see a big advantage to a CC for crabbing and shrimping as there's a lot more deck space for pot storage.

Also, (and I could be mistaken), I don't believe the CD-22 center console is self bailing (just like all the other CD-22's). Most of the great center console boats for fishing are self bailing so a little water over the bow isn't a big issue. I think it would be a bit more of a problem with a CC C-dory but obviously that can be avoided by picking one's days and by operating the boat properly/cautiously.

Most of my fishing is done on the west side of the area near Neah Bay but I occasionally wander up to Canadian waters on the lower west side of VCI. There are simply not that many days where I'd happily trade the dry, warm comfort of my cabin for the extra deck space of a center console boat in those waters. Even on the great days in August, the early morning run out is often done in chilly, damp fog. IMHO, the CC C-Dory 22 is a boat that is best left to operate on the flats in TX or FL but not a great choice for the PacNW (unless your primary mission is prawn and crab).

lloyds · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject:

Just have to chime in. Having done a lot of fishing on the west coast of the island one of the more popular fishing boats you will find up there, especially at some of the lodges, is the boston whaler. And they are all center consoles. I have had several people stop and look at my c dory 22 cruiser and say how much they like it but wouldn't care to fish out of it because of the pilot house being inconvenient to the rods. Now those were all guys that fish almost exclusively on the Columbia. My only concern with the c dory center console would be the ride in the chop up there that pops up every afternoon. Market resale somewhere down the road might be a small concern at some point but wouldn't bother a lot of the fishermen up there.

starcrafttom · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject:

As stated many of the lodges run cc whales for fishing around the island. A open boat does not have as much of an advantage when trolling but has a great advantage when mooching. which is done by a lot of lodges in that area. If your not over nighting or running way off shore then a cc boat makes a lot of sense.

Roger has a point about the boat not being self bailing , and I can't remember if thats right or not, My arguments are for a Cc boat as a day fishing boat for this area. It gets down to what is your mission? for the mission of near shore fishing during the day on the coast and inlets of west vancouver island for salmon depending on weather a CC is a great choice. I dont mind getting cold or wet because I dress for it. and I mean really dress for it, not just wear a heavy jacket. If you got cold you were dressed wrong.

Now as for my choices in boats? which one? the 27 is for cruising and fishing in any weather up to 6 ft seas. Its for staying out for a week and covering 300 miles or more. If I was not a cruiser I would not own that boat.

My duck boat is a 17 ft open boat and I will be fishing and crabbing out of it a lot this year. its smaller and just a lot easier to grab and head to the local ramp. Plus i can use it in the rivers. I would not take it out in anything more then 2 ft rollers.

the 16 ft canoe I use for duck hunting and fishing lakes. Spent the last day of the season last year laying down in the canoe in thick fog with temps around 30F waiting for the ducks to fly with two inches of water in the boat. I did not get cold. Hell you have to wade to get the duck as I have no dog, well no duck dog.

So would I buy a 22 cc for fishing in this area or vancover island? hell yes but Susan would kill me. I have fished many days in the sound and the islands in open boats belonging to friends and I love it.

hardee · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:10 pm Post subject:

FYI, the 22 CC in the opening picture does not have self bailing. It is a 22 hull, with a steering station, (CC), and it is used for day use, out and back, strictly crabbing. It isn't pretty, but it is reliable and sturdy. that is why Noah likes it. He has been using it for (I think) about 12 years now. I see him a few times each season.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

thataway · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject:

While perhaps not quite as hard core a fisherman/woman, as some on this forum, we do our share--and I have owned sport fishers in the past. Even in S. Calif, the majority of sport fishing boats are not CC. Yes, there are whalers used by some of the lodges. However, many of these are in protected waters; not offshore on the West side of Vancouver Island. There is a reason I did now own CC in S. Calif--and had a runabout for 20 years, with a good dodger. I didn't feel any inhibition with the forward deck, and windshield. The PNW is a not colder than S. Calif.

I don't agree with Tom about the waters in FL. We have much calmer waters--and my experience is both the Gulf of Mexico, the Keys, and some along the Eastern coast. If you kick in the Gulf Stream--then yes, there are some really rough waters. Hurricanes? Our last one was over 10 years ago--and they are in limited areas, and short duration times. Not at all related to this discussion.