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Carolina Sturgeon
Joined: 02 Nov 2011 Posts: 9 City/Region: Columbia
State or Province: SC
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:07 pm Post subject: Twin Suzuki EFI 20's on a light 16 |
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Need to repower and was thinking of repowering with those cool 20 hp's as they are EFI and light. We just day cruise and run light out to SC coastal islands and up the rivers exploring. Obviously not a powerhouse, but great for slow cruises and getting on a plane sometimes. Twin 25's are a consideration too. Would permatrims help on a set up like this? I like the pull start option also. Not really interested in resale aspects.
Thanks for opinions on an odd question. |
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potter water
Joined: 12 Apr 2011 Posts: 1076 City/Region: Logan
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 1997
C-Dory Model: R-21 Tug
Vessel Name: Poopsy
Photos: Still C-razy
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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consider two E-Techs of low HP instead. More torque, less weight at the stern. Excellent engines. No, I have no interest in them other than I own one and I own two Suzys. _________________ You can tell a man his wife is ugly, but never ever criticize his dog, his gun, his truck or his boat.
Never let ignorance interfere with an opportunity to state a knowledgeable opinion
Testosterone Tales-Amazon.com
2006 C-Dory 22 Cruiser 2008-2014
1997 Ranger Tug 21 Classic 2016
KG7RC |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Although the ETecs are not always "light." When I was shopping for my 22, I was impressed with the relative lightness of the ~90 hp Etec. Then I saw a 22 for sale that had twin 40hp Etecs. Looked up the specs - preparing to be pleased - and saw they were actually quite heavy as compared to something like a Honda 40/50. I guess it doesn't always scale. (Not sure about smaller than 40hp though; maybe they go back to being "light.") |
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Robert H. Wilkinson
Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 1234 City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Romakeme IV
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Sunbeam, most companies will use one block and tune or de tune it for various hp ratings. I am not familiar with the Etec 40 but it may be that it is a detuned larger(heavier block). On the plus side it would have more low speed torque than if it was a smaller block tuned for max hp.
Regards, Rob _________________ Talk to me and I will listen-- but if its not about boats or fishing all I will hear is bla,bla,bla,yada,yada,zzzzzzzz |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Understood on the various blocks. The Yamaha 40/50 splits that way. I only mentioned the Etec 40's because it seems that "light" is a hallmark of the Etec (and the 90 is impressively light), and two-strokes in general so folks naturally assume all the Etecs are light (I know I did); but that doesn't carry through to all the Etec models apparently. For example, Etec 40 is 245#.
I don't know 20/25 hp engines enough to know what is light and what isn't without checking them all. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20803 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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When comparing outboards, look at the block--15/20 hp is a 20 cu in block (108 lbs) 25/30 hp are a 29.8 cu in block (168 lbs) and 40/50 hp are a 57.4 cu in block (229 lbs).
So in the 20 hp, you are really getting a 15hp with different valve timing, and perhaps slightly different injectors. Generally the difference between the 15 and 20 is going to be at higher RPM (over 4000 RPM). Do the two 15's have enough power? It will be questionable.
Then the cost of maintenance of two engines--does this make sense?
Pretty much the minimum for the 16 seems to be 40 hp (in this case, 40-50 hp a 57.4 cu in block, which weighs about 11 more lbs) would make more sense to me than twins which will probably have less pushing power (torque) than the larger engine.
Back in the late 50's it was usual to have a manual start 40 hp outboard. So there is minimal advantage to the "manual start" of a 20 hp.
One other item to look at is the alternator output--in this case it is a wash, with 10 amps each for the 20 hp and 19 amps for the 40/50 hp. (probably slightly more power available, since you are running only one engine, with its use of electrical power.
The "cool" factor of two engines? Better maneuvering? It is a 16 foot boat, which you can paddle in a pinch…
I would vote for a single 40/ 50 hp vs the less power of the twin 20's. I don't know about the costs--but that might trend to cheaper on the twin 20.
The Permatrims, will help to get the bow down in chop. They may take a mile or so off the top end. They will get you up on a plane faster, and allow a slightly lower planing speed. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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jimicliff
Joined: 16 Jun 2009 Posts: 180 City/Region: Mount Dora
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Ocklawaha Queen
Photos: Ocklawaha Queen
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Hi I have a 16 and use a 50 Honda four stroke very happy, the trim tabs are not optional, when I was looking for a 16 I got to use one for a month unlimited, it did not have trim tabs, I could not see over the bow because I could never trim the bow down enough. I bought a 16 with tabs and it is a night and day difference. I do not know why this boat leaves the factory without them, its just that big a difference. You also dont want a pull start unless you like to travel back in time. I was raised on Hilton Head in the 60's and I returned this summer from central Fl by my 16, it was a great trip. Look at my pictures, I have my forward wind shields on hindges, for using this boat where you and I live "In the South" I dont think thats optional either, It's like a kid putting a bug in a jar and he doesnt poke holes in the lid. It can be 98 degrees and as soon as you start moving with the water vapor that hangs over the surface the cooling effect is dramatic. _________________ The trouble is we think we have TIME Buddha |
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jimicliff
Joined: 16 Jun 2009 Posts: 180 City/Region: Mount Dora
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Ocklawaha Queen
Photos: Ocklawaha Queen
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi I have a 16 and use a 50 Honda four stroke very happy, the trim tabs are not optional, when I was looking for a 16 I got to use one for a month unlimited, it did not have trim tabs, I could not see over the bow because I could never trim the bow down enough. I bought a 16 with tabs and it is a night and day difference. I do not know why this boat leaves the factory without them, its just that big a difference. You also dont want a pull start unless you like to travel back in time. I was raised on Hilton Head in the 60's and I returned this summer from central Fl by my 16, it was a great trip. Look at my pictures, I have my forward wind shields on hindges, for using this boat where you and I live "In the South" I dont think thats optional either, It's like a kid putting a bug in a jar and he doesnt poke holes in the lid. It can be 98 degrees and as soon as you start moving with the water vapor that hangs over the surface the cooling effect is dramatic. |
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jimicliff
Joined: 16 Jun 2009 Posts: 180 City/Region: Mount Dora
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Ocklawaha Queen
Photos: Ocklawaha Queen
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Hi I have a 16 and use a 50 Honda four stroke very happy, the trim tabs are not optional, when I was looking for a 16 I got to use one for a month unlimited, it did not have trim tabs, I could not see over the bow because I could never trim the bow down enough. I bought a 16 with tabs and it is a night and day difference. I do not know why this boat leaves the factory without them, its just that big a difference. You also dont want a pull start unless you like to travel back in time. I was raised on Hilton Head in the 60's and I returned this summer from central Fl by my 16, it was a great trip. Look at my pictures, I have my forward wind shields on hindges, for using this boat where you and I live "In the South" I dont think thats optional either, It's like a kid putting a bug in a jar and he doesnt poke holes in the lid. It can be 98 degrees and as soon as you start moving with the water vapor that hangs over the surface the cooling effect is dramatic. |
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jennykatz
Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 1678 City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:40 am Post subject: 16 cruiser |
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We had the 16 cruiser with a 40 hp Honda We put an over-sized Doel fin on it and the ride was remarkable difference The Doel Fin is $30 bucks and getting the larger one for bigger engines it worked Great . trim tabs just makes for another system to take care off .The Angler and Cruiser do ride differently .Cruisers need Permatrim ,Doelfin Bobs machine shop fin or trim tabs .Get the Doel fin and be happy and save some $$. _________________ retired 8/08 from UAL, still working pt tm
Duck c-22 cruiser sold 6/23/08
06 Venture Cruiser with merc115CT
00 cd16 cruiser honda 40 sold 3/12 |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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As a died in the fin "twins" guy, I like your idea of thinking twins, ...... however, twins on a 16 does seem, even to me to be somewhat over the top. they would still have the factor, but that is a pretty small transom. On my 15 sailboat, I put oarlocks on and it would row OK, if I needed it. Of course with a boat that small, it was easy and weighed in about the same as a C-D 16.
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: 16 cruiser |
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jennykatz wrote: | We had the 16 cruiser with a 40 hp Honda We put an over-sized Doel fin on it and the ride was remarkable difference The Doel Fin is $30 bucks and getting the larger one for bigger engines it worked Great . trim tabs just makes for another system to take care off .The Angler and Cruiser do ride differently .Cruisers need Permatrim ,Doelfin Bobs machine shop fin or trim tabs .Get the Doel fin and be happy and save some $$. |
Good idea, Jim!
I can say that I'm always amazed at how much difference a hydrofoil of one type or another makes on a boat, especially on small ones and ones that are over loaded with gear.
As an alternative (and to have some FUN!), I've made one for a small boat myself out of 1/8" aluminum sheet.
Design it yourself. I made mine for a 12 foot Gregor runabout as big as I dared, knowing the boat was stern heavy and short as well.
Aluminum is easy to cut, finish, polish, and drill.
The more difficult part is modeling the cutout for the lower unit where it fits on top of the anti-ventilation plate, but this can be done with heavy tag board to get the fit just right.
In fact, the whole foil should be modeled in tag board and fitted to the motor, then used as a template to cut out and fit the final product.
Piece of cake, and fun, too!
The aluminum sheet can be a hardened alloy or even stainless, but the metal working will get progressively difficult with the increasing hardness.
Easier just to use a thicker sheet of basic aluminum, IMHO! (Unless you have a machine or sheet metal shop available!)
Good Luck!
Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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Robert H. Wilkinson
Joined: 26 Jan 2011 Posts: 1234 City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Romakeme IV
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: 16 cruiser |
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Sea Wolf wrote: |
Aluminum is easy to cut, finish, polish, and drill.
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The Metal Supermarkets around where I live will sell you a piece and cut it to your exact specs.
A friend of mine made swim platform for his Magregor 26 with marine plywood covered with a sheet of aluminum checkerplate. He sold it a few years later so I don't know how well it weathered but it actually looked pretty good.
Regards, Rob |
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rjmcnabb
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 159 City/Region: Pender Island (Southern Gulf Islands)
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Luna
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Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Hi jennykatz,
I can go with you on this one. With a 50 Honda and a regular-sized Doelfin, the bow comes down very smartly, and in that attitude the gas milage seems to be improved. At steady throttle, bringing down the bow can add up to 4 Kn as measured on GPS. I'm at a loss to explain the different behaviour from that described by jimicliff, because I see no need for trim tabs if I load the boat appropriately (at rest, she sits on her lines when I am aboard.)
I would have bought a Permatrim for this OB, but the plate was already drilled by the PO, and it turned out that the spacing fit a Doelfin. No filling and no new holes necessary. Hallelujah!
Happy New Year,
Rod _________________ Rod & Jane; Victoria 18 sloop (Vickie) - gone; Islander 26 Bahama sloop (Callisto) - gone; WW Potter 19 sloop (Spring) - gone; Com-Pac 16 sloop (Bummer II) - gone; Nimble 24 yawl (Chatelaine) - gone; Nimble Vagabond cruiser (Loligo) - gone; C-Dory 22 Cruiser (NoddyBleu) - gone; Com-Pac 19 sloop ('Winkle) - gone; San Juan 24 sloop (Loligo^2) - gone; C-Dory 16 cruiser (Luna); Catalina Capri 18 sloop (Later) |
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rjmcnabb
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 159 City/Region: Pender Island (Southern Gulf Islands)
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Luna
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Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Hi jennykatz,
I can go with you on this one. With a 50 Honda and a regular-sized Doelfin, the bow comes down very smartly, and in that attitude the gas milage seems to be improved. At steady throttle, bringing down the bow can add up to 4 Kn as measured on GPS. I'm at a loss to explain the different behaviour from that described by jimicliff, because I see no need for trim tabs if I load the boat appropriately (at rest, she sits on her lines when I am aboard.)
I would have bought a Permatrim for this OB, but the plate was already drilled by the PO, and it turned out that the spacing fit a Doelfin. No filling and no new holes necessary. Hallelujah!
Happy New Year,
Rod |
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