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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, In your "invoice" are the truck and trailer hitched up? What is your tongue weight? What was the load in the boat?
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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was curious about that too. Given my experience at CAT scales (usually it's been rushed, with working trucks in line), I'd guess still hooked up. I'm curious too because I was very interested in a Cape Cruiser 23, but decided it might be juuuust a bit too heavy for my tow rigs (which usually have a 5,000# real-life tow limit). Looks like that is probably the case (my 22 comes in around 1,000# less than shown here when loaded for the road).

As a camper van type, I never see rear axle lighter than front axle on the tow rig -- I had to look at that twice!

I really like the free public scales in certain states (WA and OR that I know of). Not because I mind paying $10 at the CAT scales, but more because the public scales are usually deserted ("civilians" like me go in when they are not open for mandatory truck weighing), so I can take all the the time I want. I weigh rig + trailer, then rig alone, then trailer tongue alone, then right side only (so subtraction gives me four-corner weights), etc. I must have weighed ten times in OR, just because I could! They even display the weight so you can see it from the cab - luxury Smile
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Will-C



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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City/Region: Temple
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Electric Brakes Reply with quote

Bob,
I was hooked up to the trailer as we were coming home from Florida and I just went in to the scales on a whim. When Float On changed our trailer over to EOH they changed out the trailer's tongue which is pretty long now. We don't get our EOH unit anywhere near the water which is mounted on the trailer's tongue. Our trailer's tongue is dead level and I have usually run the fuel tanks in the boat to less than half and use any fresh water left in our boat's water thank to wash the trailer and boat down as we have a spigot tied into our fresh water on demand pump. Most everything goes in the truck dink, dink motor , camper top, etc. We leave the cooler in the cockpit while traveling. The trailer does not have a lot of effect on the truck's squat. The truck looks dead level with the trailer attached as I would hate to drive anything with the suspension used up close to sitting on the snubbers. It might go down a couple inches at the most when we hook up. I have pulled my fair share of trailers and this setup is rock steady at any speed. We are very happy with the way we are rigged. It makes a difference as we travel up to 800 miles in a day pulling boat without getting crazy. I have never weighed our trailers tongue weight. It seems perfect though no special hitch or air bags.
D.D.

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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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City/Region: Madison
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, interesting your front axle is heavier than your rear axle, if I read that printout right. First guess is too much spring in the load equalizing hitch! Smile I agree whole heartedly with you about preventive maintenance. I've also driven semi in past life (along with tour buses, and school buses even now.) I tow with a Toyota Highlander and find 58mph not only comfortable and stress free, but better on mileage with the boat in tow. (We won't talk about speed without the boat.... Smile I'm pretty impressed with the towing and braking capabilities of the Highlander, at least with the 4500 lb Midnight Flyer & trailer behind me. As I said, for me the electric brakes suffice. And I do a lot of towing, mostly flatland, but some hills and mountains now and then. I also like simple systems. EOH is nice, no doubt about it. But it's not available for everyone. For those, electric is a viable option. Colby
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Will-C



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Electric Brakes Reply with quote

The Duramax diesel engines even though they are only 403 cubic inches are not exactly light and the Allison transmissions are not either. I think that has a lot to do with the front axles weight. I'm not carrying anything really all that heavy in our eight foot bed. The truck has a 39 gallon fuel tank which sits about midway on the chassis. It drives very well pulling the boat and I think it's tow rating is for about 14,000 pounds. It's just loafing pulling 6000 pounds. I actually look forward to going up hills. All this while getting 11 to 17 mpg. I have to have a good tail wind to get the 17.
D.D. Mr. Green
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dave!

Colby, I don't believe that Dave has an equalizing hitch. I also was curious about the weight on the front axel and rear axle. I have maintained that most pickups are "light" in the rear--and that is one of my arguments for a SUV, vs a pickup. The SUV has windows, and a full frame over the roof etc aft--vs the pickup just the body, and a shell, in Dave's case.

I just happened to have my Yukon XL weighed also on a "Cat" scale this week. When the trailer was hooked up:
Front axle was2900 lb
Drive axle was 3120 lb
unloadedTrailer was 880 lb
Gross weight 6900

Without trailer:
Front Axle 3000 lbs'
Drive Axle 2820
Trailer 00000
Gross weight 5820
Trailer weight 1080 lbs and tongue weight 300 lbs.

There is a little weight shift from the front axle with the trailer on the rear.
I do have the heavy duty towing package as well as 4 x 4, 2 range/neutral transfer case (No weight equalizing) But there was only a few lbs in the Yukon XL (tools etc). I was out of the truck during both weighs.

Dave's weight is with a 23, which we know is heavier than the 22, but with the cruising gear which they use for several months. I don't see the weights being out of line at all--Dave has a heavier truck, beefier suspension and I believe a diesel--plus perhaps people in the truck, as well as personal gear.

I don't have a problem with non stainless caliper and non stainless brake hydraulic lines. I can inspect the lines every time I tow, and at my stops--where I do IR temps on hubs and disc brake rotor, I wash down, and use a corrosion block spray on the lines regularly--never had corrosion problem with lines in the past over many years of trailering boats. I also feel better putting on my own lines and brakes (I had a tire shop damage a line which had been routed under an axle by the factory!) I lube the hubs before each long haul, and since I carry an impact & torque wrench, it is no problem to pull the wheels, and look directly at calipers when I am doing the inspection. This way I am sure they are working properly. Also with the E/H brakes, it is very easy to energize the brakes, and actually watch the caliper using the battery and emergency "stop".
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Will-C



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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City/Region: Temple
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Electric Brakes Reply with quote

Bob our front axle is only 360 pounds heavier than the rear. I'm sure we could add carry more stuff and still not be over loaded in the rear. We were probably also a little lighter as we were on the way home having drank all the beer wine and water we brought for the trip. Having 120 pounds less then two tons on the rear axle does not seem light to me. I've towed the same rig in rain and snow and do not see any evil effects for what I see as pretty well balanced like Fox news. Mr. Green
D.D.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, not criticism of your truck intended. What I have seen many times is pickups spinning wheels trying to get up a ramp, where I had easily pulled a heavier boat with the Excursion and Yukon--put a few guys in the back of the truck--and up they come. Same thing in snow, where loading some sand bags in the pickup bed gave enough traction to be safe.

You have gear in the truck bed, and that is the way it is intended to be used--and then you have enough weight to be safe and pull the load when necessary.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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City/Region: Madison
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Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since also discussing vehicle weights, here is what I have with my Highlander and Cd22.

Toyota Highlander
Front Axle (GAWR Front): 2620 lbs
Both Axles (Total) (GVWR): 6100 lbs
Back Axle (GAWR Rear): 3075 lbs
Back Axle with Boat 3480 lbs
Towed Weight: 5065 lbs
Gross Combined Weight (GCWR) 10760 lbs

C-Dory & Trailer (Full gas tanks, water tank 2/3 full, Cooler in cockpit approx. 80 lbs).
Total weight: 5065 lbs.
Tongue Weight 405 lbs
Axle Weight 4660 lbs
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby, looking at the Toyota specs, (and we don't know what year and model you have)--it looks as if you are pushing the tow capacity and Gross Combined weight capacity.???
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shhhhhh. Smile Yes, by a tad. But the sucker can tow. Actually the day I weighed, I was pretty well loaded down. Most of the "over weight" came inside the car, not the boat. Also not sure just how accurate the scales I used are at the lighter weights, as most of them are used for trucks pushing 40 tons. If you do the math on this one, you'll notice not all the numbers add up exactly. The 2010 Toyota Highlander with the 6 cyl engine and tow package is rated to tow 5000 lbs. I am right up against that with the CD22, and while I would prefer to have a lot more wiggle room, I have been very impressed with the capabilities of the Highlander. And while I do a lot of towing, I also don't push the speed limits and I do take very good care in the way of preventive maintenance. The majority of my towing is just under the ratings. The pilot in me is wondering if the ratings are based on actual structural limitations, or on demonstrated ratings. Smile Colby
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree, that many of us tow at the capacity--and often don't know. For example I towed a fairly light 22 with the Honda Pilot several times, even over the Cajon Pass. The pilot was rated for 3500 lbs "house trailer"--and 4500 lbs boat. The assumption being that the aerodynamics of the boat (most likely thinking of a run-about) were better than the house trailer. In reality the C Dory is probably closer to a House trailer.

One of the reasons I went with the Yukon XL, was that it had plenty of reserve capacity, in towing, rather than a lighter SUV--which I would have preferred for several reasons. One of the other reasons was that I could lie down comfortably in the back, while Marie was driving.

With this C Dory, and the old trailer, we had kept the boat as light as possible, putting most of the gear in the SUV. With the new trailer, we will have the C Dory loaded a bit more. Not only is there a load higher capacity in the trailer, but the bunks are far better and give full support for the hull.

I believe that the towing capacity is a combination of many factors, including the transmission, engine, running gear, brakes, type of frame, and engineering, including hitch attachment. The vehicles which are on truck frames are going to have some advantages over the crossover types with monocoque construction. I believe that the Highlander is built on the Camry platform, thus you probably would avoid a weight distributing hitch, which works better with a traditional "ladder" type of frame.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure you are correct about the Highlander on a Camry platform. I looked at several replacement vehicles for my Excrusion. (Yeah, I spelled that right by it's use of gas! Smile Including the Pilot. In the end, this Highlander won out. Right price and everything else. (It was slightly used.) And while I miss having a much bigger vehicle for both comfort and safety, I do appreciate the costs associated with driving the smaller SUV. And manueverability. I tend to get 19-23 mpg normal driving. Towing the boat averages about 13 at the speeds I mentioned earlier. (5Cool. Not great, but much better than the Excursion. Earlier in the year I looked at some Class B's. But not impressed with room in the drivers seat and specifically in the copilots seat! None of the newer vehicles I looked at in replacing the Excursion impressed me with knee room. Hate banging into the center dash consoles they all seem to have in the intermediate range. Class C's and A's have great room and set up right can make great tow vehicles. None the less, the purchase and operating costs outweigh their use for me right now. In the end, the tradeoffs for me make my Highlander a good all purpose car. Colby
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Captains Cat



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colby, what engine did you have in the Excursion, must have been gas? We get about 22 not towing, 17 towing the 22 and 14 when we towed the TC 255.

Charlie

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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

V10. Only got about 15-16 mpg not towing. With a SeaRay 268 Sundancer at the time, which weighed around 9500 lbs, mileage was down to 9-11.
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