hydraulic braking system doesn't seem to be doing much

cmetzenberg

So i'm new to whole trailer brake thing but the Hydrastar brake system i have doesn't really feel like it does very much. I'm using a kelsey energize controller that came with my 1989 chevy 3500 when i bought it. According to hydrastar's website this should be compatible. I can hear the actuator clicking when the controller is activated but the wheels don't lock up or anything. I've turned the controller all the way up, it doesn't seem to do much. Any advice?

journey on · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject:

Well, when they work they're awesome (great), so here's a couple of suggestions. I assume that's a Carlysile Hydrostar unit, similar to the one I have.

First, you mention that the controller is compatible, which means it's analogue. Is it set at the correct tilt? On my truck, the controller is set at an angle and there is a dial to level the Hall sensor.

Next, there isn't just a click, there's a motor that should be running to build up pressure. I have Judy check it when I hook the trailer up, because I can't hear it from the truck. Try wiggling the trailer/truck connecter first. If not get a wiring diagram from Carlisle and check that you're getting voltage at the unit, through the truck/trailer connecter. The click may come from the truck's power relay or something else. If you have power and the motor runs, go to the next step.

Next look at the disks. If they're working, there should be shiny bands around the disk, where the pads are rubbing. If not, check the pads. If they seem OK, connect a plastic hose on the bleed screw, have someone step on the brakes, open the bleed screw and see if any brake fluid comes out. By the way, quickly close the screw.

If you find something wrong as you go through the checkout, fix it and keep on going.

The problems I've had with the electric/hydroulic brakes are 2 fold. First the motor quit and I needed to replace the electronics. I haven't heard of that happening to anyone else. Second, the brakes get used and I have to maintain/rebuild them. New pads, a new caliper and surface the rotors. Normal stuff, especially using them in salt water.

Remember that trailer/boat weighs ~9000 lbs.

Boris

cmetzenberg · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject:

i've never heard a motor! just clicking

Cview · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:59 pm Post subject:

The emergency break-a-way switch on the trailer should be fastened to the tow vehicle via a thin wire cable. For a quick check of the trailer's brakes, pull out the plunger in the emergency break-away-switch. This should activate the electric over hydraulic brakes such that the trailer can not be moved. This test relies on the small battery mounted on the trailer having a sufficient charge. If this test is successful, you know the trailer brakes are basically working and you can then concentrate on why your truck brake controller is not applying the brakes.

If your truck brake controller is old, you may want to replace it as there have been improvements in more recent designs.

Tony
C-View II

Will-C

I would start by making sure you have a good ground on the unit. Normally the white wire from the truck goes directly to the controller and also does not hurt to run a second ground wire to the trailers frame. If you Google wiring diagrams for Carlisle brake controllers they have a test procedure where you use you battery to directly apply the 12 volts to the unit which if it's working the motor should run and pump up pressure. If the unit fails the test you have to buy a new or rebuilt unit. I think they are in the 400 to 600 dollar range. If the unit runs then it's time to check out the trucks wiring. The black wire is for the 12vdc feed. Some Chevy trucks do not have this connected. Make sure the units black wire is indeed getting the 12vdc constantly. Our truck a 2009 did not come with the 12vdc for the black wire hooked up. I tested the unit using a battery and it all checked out but the controller would not pump up when connected to the truck. Then I found out the truck was not supplying the 12vdc. The dealer explained the 12vdc wire does not come connected from the factory. It will get some voltage through back feeding which might explain the just clicking. I have the test procedure at home and let me know if you can not find it on line.
D.D.

Lost Petrel · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:13 am Post subject:

Did you check to make sure there was proper fluid and that the hydraulic system was bled?
I spent awhile trying to set up my new controller only to find out it was not working because of lack of fluid. If the brake system is not bled well enough the brakes won't work.

Discovery · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:41 am Post subject:

I have just noticed that the elect/hydraulic on my EZ Loader trailer is not working either. There is a noise at the actuator when power is applied, but no braking even with the controller set up to 7.7. It has worked fine in the past. Where are parts available for the Carlisle actuator?

journey on · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:35 am Post subject:

Carlisle parts are an interesting story. When my unit quit, I both called the factory and tried to find a dealer. The dealer in North Cal didn't answer the phone and it was the closest. The factory answered their phone.

The message was that they didn't sell parts. So I asked for the sales manager. Well, he wasn't there, but they gave me his call phone. Aren't cell phones wonderful? So I called him, we talked and he agreed to sell me the electronics board inside the unit. Called the factory again and had them send the board. Unit has worked well since.

I don't know if they will sell parts now, since this happened several years ago. First, I'd try to make sure that you have power to the unit, and as Will-C mentioned, that includes ground. Then try the test procedure he mentioned, actuator test procedure, and if it doesn't work, start worrying. For reference, here's the Hydrastar Manual , which has a wiring schematic and a detailed test procedure.

The test I mentioned above of attaching a hose to the bleed valve, etc. is a check for pumping brake fluid. As another thought, be sure you first look in the brake reservoir to see that there is fluid in there.

The breakaway just puts 12 VDC to the unit directly from a battery on the trailer. Check it after you see that the Carlysile unit is working. Actually, I use that circuit to supply 12 VDC to the refrigerator whilst we're towing.

Boris

Will-C

I don't think Carlisle sells individual parts. You have to buy a new or rebuilt controller. The rebuilts are only available from Carlisle directly I think and if my memory serves me correctly they are a couple hundred or so cheaper than new. StarCraft Tom just bought one I believe maybe a private message to him could fill in the blanks. I think I bought mine the 1600 pound unit from Trailer Parts Super Store located in Delaware. Mine cost $579. plus 15.98 shipping ouch Crying or Very sad

that was Nov 13 of 2013. I upgraded from a 1200 pound unit. Maybe try bleeding the brakes first. I try and change my brake fluid every couple years in all of our vehicles to prevent any corrosion damage in the calipers etc..
D.D.

Da Nag · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:07 pm Post subject:

Having just gone through this with the trailer I'm retrofitting for my Nordic, I've a little bit o' info to share...

First up - Carlisle no longer has anything to do with Hydrastar. The company you want to deal with is below:

http://hydrastarmarine.com/

The company is well informed on everything Hydrastar, and was started by a former Carlisle employee as explained to me. They acquired all rights to the Hydrastar product from Carlisle. I'm not certain, but I think the head honcho is the original designer of the Hydrastar units originally sold by Carlisle. They have all necessary parts to fix just about any problem found.

When I contacted them, I had several calls and emails with Nick. He's most helpful, and can help you troubleshoot things in short order. Some of the basics mentioned above are correct, but he can give you an exact method of testing that will isolate exactly where the problem is. The yanking of the emergency plug - assuming a charged trailer backup battery - is a good start, but it doesn't do anything other than isolate the problem to the trailer or vehicle side of things.

Also, they have updated their products. The short version, as explained to me - the Hydrastar units were not originally designed for marine environments, as that was not Carlisle's targeted audience. They quickly caught on for boat trailers, and Carlisle was quite happy to supply them to trailer manufacturers - but the new versions have been updated to better hold up in a marine environment.

My Hydrastar was doing the same thing - clicking, no actuation. For my problem, two things were discovered. First up - my Hydrastar actuator was toast. It was installed incorrectly by Float-On, placing it inside the trailer frame rail in a location where it was easily submerged when launching/retrieving the Ranger 29 that was originally on it. When disassembled, the level of corrosion was extreme, and I opted to replace it with one of the newer units. I'll be mounting the actuator higher up to ensure it can't be submerged.

Second - my original brake controller is on the "approved" list. It's an original Prodigy, and when used with the HBA-CAM adaptor - it's supposed to work just fine with the Hydrastars. It doesn't, and there's nothing wrong with the controller - it works fine everywhere else. I swapped it out with a Prodigy P2, and all works as expected.

Good luck - but start by contacting the folks above. I'm sure they'll get things resolved for you in short order.

dabfd · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject:

Ok guys I just went thru this situation. The true test is to pull out the break a way cable and see if the motor in the unit operates. There is a 12v 5 amp battery which has been mentioned prior that operates the pump. If the pump does not operate check the battery to see if it has 12v. Also another test is to supply 12v to the blue and black wire coming from the actuator. If you can get the actuator to run then try bleeding the bleed screw on top of the actuator. My pump would run but I was not getting any pressure out of the bleed screw.

So now if you find that your sure you have a bad actuator I found a supplier in Ohio called Cargo towing solutions. They have an internet site. Call them at 812 655 4544. You press #2 for support and talk to Nick. This guy is great he was so helpful. You can purchase an upgraded rebuilt marine unit for $425 delivered in 3 days. A new one will be $575. The rebuilt I got looked like new. The rebuilt is warranted for 1 year and the new one is 2 years. The install was very easy.

Just sold our Tomcat Sunday and it is now residing in SF area. We really enjoyed it but now we are looking at returning to sailing. Just word of mouth on this site was enough to sell it.

Discovery · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Boris, Da Nag and dabfd

My actuator was mounted on top of the frame. I moved it up as far as the wires/hoses would allow. To the top of first ladder step. I think I may have dunked it launching and loading anyway. It worked well for almost 9 years. It "clicks" when power is applied, but no braking. There is fluid, but maybe not enough. I'll add more and repeat the test.

I'll contact "Nick" through the link provided. Towing to Skagway next spring and will have to have the brakes working.

dabfd · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject:

Hydrastarmarine and Cargo Towing Solution are one of the same.

The motor in the unit most be running not just clicking. You will hear a constant hum. Then check if fluid comes out of the bleed screw.

Discovery · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject:

I talked to Nick at Hydrastar Marine. After doing the function test I determined that I had a break in the 12 V positive wire feeding the actuator unit. The cheapest of all outcomes. Since I have a 2012 Ford F350 with the newer Ford brake controller, I decided to order a HBA-CAM modulator to work with my HBA-12 actuator. I need to change the brake fluid, its getting dark, and I will again raise the unit higher up on the TomCat ladder. I will rewire and get a longer rubber brake line.

Total damages were $125.00, HBA-CAM $110.00 and a new breakaway battery $15.00 I have a quart of DOT 4 brake fluid.

cmetzenberg · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject:

Once I'm home i'm going to try the break away test. Following that it will be time to bust out the good old multimeter. I suspect an open circuit on the black 12v wire, just like Discovery is saying. If i had an open on the ground i wouldn't have lights, and I do. If i had an open on the blue wire controlling the brakes i wouldn't hear the solenoid clicking.