New Garmin autopilot for 2015

[thataway]

For those who may be considering an autopilot with Garmin electronics, there a new autopilot.

The core of this is a "9 axis" sensor (this means 3 in magnetic, three in acceleration and 3 in spacial orientation) This is similar to what is in the EV Ray Marine, Point one in Lowrance etc…



Looks like a good match for at least the C dory 22--and I have heard of use of the smaller pump on boats up to 27 feet. I would want the SeaStar, over the Baystar steering system. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

The "9 axis" sensor is most likely what we have in our i phones etc.

[ssobol]

Lowrance has a new A/P out that works with the HDS chartplotters. It is for boats under 30' and the hydraulic steering version is about $1K (plus the plotter).

http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/News/Lowrance-Announces-Outboard-Pilot/

[Captains Cat]

Hmmm. Just bought an AP the GHP 10, this one wasn't out, think it's worth sending it back before I open it? Not ready to install yet, hate to be a Guinea Pig though... Looks like the same price...Not available until Q1 2015 though, guess I could leave a hole in the dash....

And Bob, we do have SeaStar....

Charlie

[journey on]

I'm going to take a guess as to what 9 axis of information means.

First, let's define "state": position, velocity, and acceleration, both in position/location and attitude/rotational. That's a normal physical state description/vector.

So, counting states: Linear States: (1) position, (2) velocity, (3) acceleration; Rotational States (4) attitude (pitch, etc.) (5) rate (pitch rate, etc) (6) acceleration (change in pitch rate, etc.) That's the 6 degree of freedom model (DOF) in our world. This is a classical definition for controlling boats, airplanes, spacecraft, machinery, etc.

In our 3D world, it only takes 3 axis (x, y, z) to measure your state. For example, up, north-south and east-west. How you measure those states, while important, doesn't count as a state, just a measurement with respect to each axis.

I don't know how you get from 6 to 9 and still stay in a normal world. But here's a guess. Each state can be broken down into the x,y,z directions. so 6 x 3 = 18. And if you only measure the x, y directions (2 axis, N-S, E-W) you're down to 12. That's a reasonable assumption, since you're not trying to levitate the boat but keep it on the surface. And if you cut out 3 of those measurements, say rotational acceleration, because they're not in your scheme, you're down to 9. But those are measurements, not "states".

How you can call measurement of 3 components of 3 states can only be justified as a copy writers dream. Does each axis count as a state? For a copy writer, probably. What about linear acceleration? What good does that do, since you're only trying to steer the boat?

So what are they measuring? Remember, how they measure it doesn't count as a "state". I assume they have rate gyros, accelerometers and a GPS buried in there and that's impressive.

Yes, I didn't have much else to do. Just expressing curiosity as to what Garmin and Raymarine ad writers call states.

Boris

[Captains Cat]

Boris, there are 50 of them in this country... Alabama, Arkansas........Texas.....Wyoming, etc...

Charlie

[RobLL]

Not quite on topic, but a 'best' argument for APs is that it also allows the operator to be a lookout. I anticipate spending a fair amount of time as the only person on the boat. Out at sea it was often pointed out to me that the captain was the only person in the bridge who wasn't doing anything. He was the lookout who ensured that everyone else was doing their job.

[Aurelia]

found this:

It's a three axis accelerometer, three axis rate gyro and three axis magnetometer. Same sensor configuration as Airmar H2183, Raymarine EV-100 and even Lowrance Point-1 and Simrad GS25.

I think the driving force behind the abundance of sensors is the flexibility of mounting the unit in any orientation and still having a sensor that is positioned well.

Greg

[Da Nag]

Far from an expert here, but I did tons of research prior to selecting the Simrad system I'm installing. My primary goal was to get the best single vendor system I could for my uses, and AP functionality was certainly part of that research.

What I read, time and time again - the best AP's aren't judged by their hardware capabilities, but by the software that controls them. The algorithms that determine course corrections from the data supplied are far more important than the hardware itself.

Case in point - while the rest of my new Simrad system is cutting edge stuff, the tech specs on the AP show the components haven't changed much in many years. Initially, I considered this inferior; no plug and play automatic configuration like the Raymarine Evolution, more attention needs to be paid to component installation location and interference, etc. However, try and find somebody who has something bad to say about its performance and accuracy. It's tough to do; it's widely regarded as one of the best in its class.

This isn't meant to be a recommendation for Simrad, or against any other vendor - but I'd not want to jump on a newly released AP until many, many reviews were in. Hardware tech specs alone would certainly not convince me to be an early adopter.

[thataway]

First I agree that Simrad (actually the old Robertson) autopilots have been top of the line for many years. I have been told by reliable sources that the new Lowrance is using Simrad AP 24 software, with the new sensor, plus a cheaper pump. The Simrad pump alone costs almost as much as the new Lorance entire unite.

These pumps are sort of a self contained and much robust/smaller pump set. This does not mean that they may not work well.

One of the reasons I mentioned this, was it is a bit of a break thru for Garmin. Now for the first time, I would consider a Garmin pump (They bought the TR1, back a few years ago--which was an excellent pump set for the trolling motor, and indicated that Garmin was getting serious about Auto pilots.

It will be interesting to see if Garmin can come near the Price point that Lowrance has. You could buy a 5" Gen 2 HDR $(349) plus the autopilot for about $600 less than just the Garmin auto pilot.

Greg is correct about the sensor…

[journey on]

Well, Bill/DaNag identified what states they're measuring: Rotational rate (rate gyros) and Rotational position (magnetometer) and combined acceleration: linear, rotational and gravity (accelerometer.) So that's a 4 state machine. They probably have access to a GPS via some data bus so one could use linear position and rate as well, giving them a true 6 DOF machine.

Now, that's impressive. It appears that one company (Airmar?) developed the sensor package and has now sold it to all interested parties, which is great. And as Bill/DaNag points out, it's not only the sensors but the control system software. I wonder if the same company has developed the control software and is selling that along with the sensor package. That way, the retailers (Garmin, etc.) only has to develop the interfaces to their MFD. And they get mature control software. If one company reports a problem, they all have it and it's gonna get fixed. So that's one route to dependable software.

Journey On has a Raymarine ST6001? which is now a decade old. I've sent back the control unit for repair, which went well. The hydraulic pump, whoever makes it, has sat there and moaned for a decade with no problems. I do shut it off if we're going downwind and starting to slide all over the place, since I was too cheap to get the rate gyro package.

I love autopilots. When cruising, steering a boat is the most unproductive, boring job on board. With the autopilot on, I get to look around for where we're going, what's in our way and other boats. As well as enjoying the scenery.

I notice that the new autopilots are priced as a "system", but for some the pump costs extra.

No real reason for this post, just a freebie.

Boris

[thataway]

There have been a lot of changes thru the years to auto pilots. First auto pilot I had on an inboard, was made from a B 26 bomb site--two tungsten wires on a compass--hunted, but worked.

Next was the graduated light filter, with Benmar 210 course setter. Fast forward to flux gate compass units in the last 20 years.

Up until recently there had to be a rudder feedback unit. For the outboard this was a lineal resistor/ram, which was subject to frequent failure. Then just the GPS heading--but some problems because of slow update on the GPS. A Rate Gyro fluxgate compass was required for good performance. Today the GPS is at 10 hz, fast enough to give good radar overlay, if the boat is moving. Now this multiple facet and axis sensor (similar to what is in all of our smart phones). All of these have a common facet in that they also rely on the GPS, as part of the software input. I suspect that these will be far better than the pilots of even 5 years ago.

[gulfcoast john]

So cool!
I love Garmin Auto-guidance Vision cartography; works so great to never again have to plot routes, just end waypoints, and Garmin plots the best route using user parameters (distance from shore, depth, etc).
With AP that would be even cooler.

Dr Bob, when is Garmin going to match Lowrance/BG with a Broadband radar? I can't afford 2 12 inch MFD's just to get the Broadband radar I lust after when I already have the Garmin 12 inch display, My Lovely Assistant likes it too.
Cheers!
John