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Suzuki DF90A Stalling
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easternshore22



Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 40
City/Region: Eastern Shore
State or Province: MD
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Hunky Dory
Photos: Hunky Dory
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Suzuki DF90A Stalling Reply with quote

I am having problems with my outboard that is driving me crazy.

Symptoms: Engine stalls idling, going at cruising speed or at WOT, Can be 2 minutes from starting or 15 minutes. Engine stops, beeps twice (indicating stalling) and no error codes in diagnostic screen. I squeeze the primer bulb a couple of times and starts again. Then it happens again and repeat the cycle.

The fuel system has (in sequential order):
- Two fuel tanks
- Selection valve
- 10 micron filter
- Primer bulb
- Low pressure filter
- Low pressure pump
- Fuel vapor separator that includes high pressure pump and pressure regulator
- High pressure filter
- Injectors
- I use regular gas with stabil + startron

I replaced everything between the tanks and low pressure pump with the exception of the selection valve. The problem still exists and seems that it is more frequent.

What I have observed:
- When it stalls, the bulb is not flat, just soft
- When I prime again, I hear air coming out the vapor separator until the bulb gets hard
- If I notice that the engine will stall, I reduce RPM and recovers
- I checked for air leaks when priming, and can not find any since I can get the bulb hard and stays like that
- No kinks even when the engine tilting up or down, left or right.
- I hear the high pressure pump working when I turn the switch to on (based on the shop manual, it turns on at 100% for 3 seconds to pressurize the system).

My next step is to replace the high pressure filter, but not sure this is the problem. The problem happens at high and low RPM, it seems that randomly somewhere the fuel line gets obstructed. Maybe the pickup at the tank get's obstructed?

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Franco

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Bill K



Joined: 28 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check your vent hose from one end to the other.

Bill Kelleher

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BrentB



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

off hand

Has the bulb been replaced and pointing to sky?

Is it a generic bulb or high quality(Suzuki, etc) bulb?

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Roscoe



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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City/Region: Portland
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had the same problem with both our 40 hp Suzukis. Nobody could fix them, not reasonably anyway, and we ended up replacing them with Yamahas.
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rogerar



Joined: 10 May 2008
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City/Region: SW FL
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C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had a real headscratcher in my fuel supply, it turned out to be some defective fuel lines sold by Sierra a few years ago. It is defective, and the inner liner will delaminate and separate and collapse separately from the outside hose. This will not show up in a pressure test, with soapy water, it took quite a while to figure it out. They sold many miles of this hose. It is white or grey with a gloss finish. See:

http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/forum2/check-your-fuel-lines-th22055.html

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=20487

Roger
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rogerar



Joined: 10 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a great troubleshooting sequence:

Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: Reply with quote


Starting at the bottom of the tank here is what could be an issue: intake screen over the fuel pickup clogged. The pickup tube could have an air leak (I have had a pin hole in one, which pulled air, rather than fuel). The anti siphon valve at the top of the tank--may or may not have an Elbow attached. Anywhere along the line there could be a pinch, or even in an old line, broken down inner wall of an old hose which has collapsed and would prevent fuel from flowing. At the filter--could be air coming in any of the fittings, hose clamp leaking at any of these places from anti siphon valve to the squeeze bulb. The filter gasket or water drain (if it has one) is not seated properly. I have also seen Teflon tape which covered an intake or discharge fitting out of a filter, when it was not properly applied to the threads. The bulb could be bad--and I always carry a spare bulb. If there is an obstruction, the bulb usually remains collapsed. One other place, but unlikely in this scenario is a clogged fuel vent.

I agree that it seems like it is sucking air. I usually keep an outboard tank around, so I can put that in the boat, and do diagnostics--see if the leak is before the tank buy hooking the house out of the anti siphon valve to the outboard tank. If it works fine, then the air leak (or obstruction) is in the anti siphon valve or in the tank pickup. Work your way up the system and you will find you leak. Another way to find a leak is to paint all of the fittings with a soapy water solution, put slight pressure on the fuel line from the tank--and see if bubbles form at the fittings junction or around the hose clamps.
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easternshore22



Joined: 12 Jun 2010
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City/Region: Eastern Shore
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C-Dory Year: 1996
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Photos: Hunky Dory
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the answers.

All the lines, 10 micron filter and bulb are new from west marine. Since it is an old boat I started with that.

One more detail, the engine has 150 hours.

Does the position of the bulb really matters (I mean pointing up or down)? I never heard about that, but I will check anyways.

It seems that my next step would be to check the tanks. I see if I can borrow an external one to test before removing them.

Thanks,

Franco
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Primer on Primers

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/primer.html
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jennykatz



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:00 am    Post subject: fuel problems Reply with quote

We had a similar problem with a f-115 Yamaha . We changed out 10 micron filter and fuel bulb that did not help . then we took out fuel pickups without the ball bearings anti siphon valves that did the trick no more fuel problems We use only non -ethanol fuel with startron and change out filters every 50-75 hrs. With all new hoses and filters it might be the fuel pickups . Good Luck Jim
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I agree... You have a fuel supply issue and need to check the entire system., and there are differences in primer bulbs and installation skywards or vertical is important ....some feel OMC/Bombardier bulbs are the best .. something to check
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potter water



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roscoe, if you still have the non functioning Suzuki 40 hp motors, I'll take them off your hands. Two motors don't go bad in the very same way. Your mechanics must have been really really really bad to not have been able to get to the root of two Suzy motors going bad in the very same way and fix them at a reasonable price compared to brand new Yamahas.

At least I'd like to hear the story of what the problem was with them and what trouble shooting took place. My Suzuki's are excellent and if I run into a similar problem with mine some time, I'd like all the info I can get on other Suzy problems.

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My IRA



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you spend lots of $ guessing what the problem might be, I would try a portable tank with different hose.
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matt_unique



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Antisiphon valve Reply with quote

The only time I have ever had the problems you describe was when the antisiphon valve located inside the elbow fitting coming right off the tank began to malfunction. With the engines running, lean down and listen as close as you can to this valve. In my case I heard what sounded like electrical arcing (caused by the ball inside the valve not able to move properly).

If your fuel tank is below the fuel port on your engine you don't need one. Super easy fix if yes. Place antisiphon valve in a vice, take a screw driver that will fit inside, and then take a hammer and knock it out. One pop with the hammer and it will be out.

Good luck with the research.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good suggestions--I agree with Matt--that if all else fails, it could be the anti siphon valve.

Yes, the fuel flow out side of the bulb should be up. It has to do with the valves in the bulb. But you may notice that during priming.

I agree the separate fuel tank is a great idea--borrow one, if necessary.

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easternshore22



Joined: 12 Jun 2010
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City/Region: Eastern Shore
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C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Hunky Dory
Photos: Hunky Dory
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the help. This is a great site!

I looked at the bulb and it was pointing down. I changed the layout to point up.

I also checked the pickup line of one tank and it came out. It was all brittled. I guess they were built before ethanol and after 18 years they reached the end of their life.

The next step will be to get a pair of new ones and also borrow a separate tank to check.

I will post with the results after the weekend.

Thanks again,

Franco
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