New camperback - a few detail questions for the gang....

Sunbeam

Hi Folks,

Looks like I'm going to get a camperback in a couple of weeks. I'm excited but a bit daunted, too. I want to get it right.

On the basic design, I'm going to follow most of the "EQ recommendations" (which I've saved whenever I've read them), and the fellow making it has made a number of those camperbacks. But on the other hand, he'll do whatever I specify.... if only I know what to ask for. Man, there are so many details Shocked

1) Color.
Seems like the obvious choices are blue (like my bimini), or some sort of tan or grey, either lighter or darker. I do think some of the dark colors are sharp on the C-Dory, but on other boats I've always felt more like I want to see the boat, not the canvas (meaning go with taupe, grey, etc.).

2) Phiftertex mesh screens.
I was just looking at a camperback made by the same place (on another 22) and instead of the usual "screen" material for the screens, it used Phifertex mesh. I woul see some plusses to this (more privacy, more sunblocking, more airflow), but I wonder how it does at keeping mosquitoes etc. at bay. Maybe folks in the PNW are a bit "spoiled" as the mosquitoes are not that bad up here - or maybe it is just fine. Being from the Great Lakes.... solid steel is sometimes not enough Smile

3) Privacy curtains.
It seems that one set of clear "glass" panels and one set of screened panels is how this place usually does it (but they will do something else if I want it, however I would have to know what I want so I can tell them). I wonder about solid privacy curtains. On the one hand, there is only so much canvas I can stow! And I typically anchor out, so don't have super close neighbors. But sometimes it might be nice. I was thinking that if a full set of dedicated curtains was too much, then maybe one curtain panel I could snap up on any of the sides? How do others handle this? Just make your own lightweight curtain later? Rely on the screens and the cabin curtains (i.e. go inside)?

4) Back to the "glass" windows and the screens....
This place typically makes them so you either have the "glass" in and the screened panels stowed, or vice-versa. I can see that would be clean. But does anyone have it so the "other" panels roll up and stow in place?

I can only think of about two hundred additional questions... jeepers Smile

I've read a bunch of other (useful!) threads, but still wanted to ask a few new questions.

Aurelia · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:33 am Post subject:

We just made our own lightweight panels that velcro to a few tabs on the inside of each window. We have used the rear panel the most to keep eyes our of the cabin. Total privacy in the cockpit is rarely something we need.

Keep the questions coming,

Greg

Casey · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:53 am Post subject:

Sunbeam,

Color. On a previous boat I had a dark green bimini. In the Keys it was noticeably warmer (much warmer) beneath the bimini. On my previous CD22 the camper canvas was "cadet grey" (light gray), and on our CC23 the camper canvas is beige. Both seem cooler in my opinion.

As for the sunbrella itself, think about using a Sunbrella product called SeaTech (or somethinglike that). It's Sunbrella with a waterPROOF underside lining. Sunbrella is quite water repellent, but SeaTech is actually waterPROOF and I found it handy for periods of long and heavy rain, when regular Sunbrella begins to 'wick water through the material. (However, SeaTech will also cause interior moisture to condense inside when condition are right, if the cockpit windows are in place.)

And, as I've confessed many times: don't use Tenara (gore) thread on your camperback. It will likely cause the canvas to leak, and require seam sealing. Use a normal good grade of thread (it swells and doesn't pass waterlike the Tenara). Tenara is very good for storage covers that are exposed to the sun. Don't ask how I learned the Tenara-leak-lesson!

Screen. Our CC23 camperback has built-in screens that cannot be removed. The plastic windows rollup on the inside and are held in place with straps, or can be completely removed and stored. It's kind of a toss-up which design is better. both have an upside and a downside, but either one works. When you make a decision on the screen material to be used ask for the one with the finest grid. NO screening will keep out ALL the 'squito's, and even if it did the little buggers will find a way-in through any gaps even in well made camper canvas.

Privacy. We don't have any privacy covers for the cockpit or the cabin and it's seldom an issue. We do have snap-on sunscreens that can be placed on either/both sides for sun protection, and that works pretty well for privacy if we feel we need it. When we bought the boat it came with a full set of very nice custom made interior privacy curtains. We've used them Once; it's easier to just leave them at home.

We'll be out of contact for about four weeks, so I'll miss the comments on your camperback thread. Sad

Oh my God ... no C-Brat's for almost a month. We're already going into withdrawl!!!!

Best,
Casey&Mary

JamesTXSD · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:26 am Post subject:

Camperbacks on these boats are like a "bonus room". We have the Eisenglass panels with internal screens, and they work great. On the rare occasion we need privacy (more likely it would be some sun blocking), we hang towels that are the same color as the camperback. Easy, and a second utility for the towels.

You're going to love having that camperback!

colobear · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:39 am Post subject:

The Bimini on Our first set of camperbacks zipped open only from one side. That made docking and getting off the boat from the other side more difficult. So, consider having yours made to unzip from both sides (our 2nd set does that and we like it.) you might also consider having the side panels made a little bigger to make getting into and out of the boat a little easier.

potter water · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:12 am Post subject:

We paid a bunch for the camper back and immediately noticed that we simply didn't have all the privacy or, more importantly sun blocking with just the glass and the screen. So we went to a fabric store and bought a nice color matching heavy duty material and went the velcro tab rout. All 3 pieces we use will pack into a space about the size of a small box of Kleenex. Camper back without full sun blocking is not good on the water in the summer time.

AstoriaDave · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:05 am Post subject:

Sunbeam,

Check with the provider of your camperback on the type of insect screening. The key question, put forcefully if needed, is whether the mesh is no see um proof. These little guys are very tiny, but all mouth. Likely you had similar critters in the Midwest. Look over the REI catalog and note many of the backpackkng tent blurbs specify noseeum proof screening. Take the catalog with you if needed, or even a swatch of the stuff. REI Seattle has a remnants stash, or maybe you can buy just a little to take to the camperback provider. If you have to, buy enough from REI or Seattle Fabrics (good people) and hand it to the camperback folks ahead of sewing.

NORO LIM · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject:

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject:

Thank you all so much for your comments and suggestions (and "anti-suggestions"). I've been putting off this camperback project for over two years, -- partially because of scheduling/location conflicts, but MOSTLY because I'm just scared to do it! There are so many options, and getting them right or wrong can make a big difference in the every day experience of the boat. Figuring it all out is so daunting that I just kept not doing it. And now I'm nervous as a kitten hoping I get it right (or at least mostly right). This thread is going to really help, I can tell, and I'm most appreciative to all of you who take the time to reply.

Now to sort out a meaningful response (will be back to post it).

Thanks!
Sunbeam

potter water · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject:

I don't think I saw this directly mentioned, but We specifically had our camperback built such that the full side on both sides would be open when that side was unzipped. The reason is for Access from the dock. Our gunnel is typically right at dock height, and to have any smaller opening than from the cabin, back to the splash well, makes access difficult. We are not big people and are reasonably mobile.

Some camperbacks have been owner preferred to have narrower openings in the sides or even "sub openings" in the sides.

Different stroke for different folks.

I think you can sweat the details too much. The big gain is to get that part of the boat out of the weather and privacy and more room to roam. You'll be so happy to have those two problems solved that the little compromises that you make are pretty far back in second place. In other words, you will be happy with any decent configuration. Lots of good advice above though.

bcassal · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject:

Sounds like you have gotten some good advice, here's my 2cents:

Zippers on both sides at the cabin roof are essential for both egress and access to the cabin roof. We store things there.

Have the canvas extend past the lazaretts. Our original King Canvas top ended at the motor well. We extended the new canvas past the lazzeretts and what a difference! It made our new room seem HUGE.

We have never felt the need for privacy curtains and it would be that much more to stow.

I have pictures of our canvas in our album under mods.

Good luck, we use our canvas a lot.

C-Hawk · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject:

I notice that most cb's only cover the cockpit area. We had ours made to extend to the back of the boat, so we could access the lazaretts if needed- the extra room is nice too.

Wandering Sagebrush · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:41 pm Post subject:

Another thing to consider. If you're going to have a cooler rack, have the back made to fit around the cooler.

thataway · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject:

Forget the Phifertex mesh. It is made for sun block or under lay on cushions, not insect stoppage. Of all of the camper backs I have owned, the custom one on the Tom Cat was the best. The boarding area zipped out entirely, if you wished, The Bimini top had two zippers to the center on both sides, so that the panel could be accessed from either side, or completely removed.

Color--looks best to match the boat's other canvas/stripes. The tan is the best as far as being cool/no glare, and dirt hiding. Maybe next is the light grey. Negative on the off whites.

The problem with materials which do not breath is mildew and condensation on the inside. I find Sunbrella is water proof enough--or even better yet the material used on my Slide toppers by German or swiss corporation--I'll have to get the name.

Frame, 1" SS, with full self supporting is best. I agree over the motor well--but then there is an issue of the motor tilt up.

We don't use the camper much in hot areas, just the Bimini. We did small side windows on the Tom Cat, with no screens, and made real no see em net for full sides when we were anchored. You can get great no see em net from military surplus--cheap and very durable.

If you are having it put in, then roll up, or zip out the clear--no-see-em to be permeant.

I would debate Casey about the Tenara--and sealing the seams.

I have made snaps which allow pulling the sides up over the Bimini, and snap into place, thus no flying down with winds.

We used The vinyl bolt rope holder on the sides of the cabin, as well as the top--and gave more "waterproof" sides--zipper like the top for convience, and easier than using snaps on the sides.

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject:

There is so much information here! Thank you, thank you!