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Tomcat water leak through skuppers
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Tomcat water leak through skuppers Reply with quote

Hi c-dory community,

I have a buddy who has a tomcat 255...this is his story.

He was in some chop and he felt like he hit something on the port side motor. The engine ceased to work. He made it to port and stayed a night at the harbor. At 1am he awoke and noticed that his boat was listing heavily to the starboard side. There was water that entered and he had to use the bilge in the hull to push it all out.

He thought that it may be a problem with his scuppers but I was on his boat a few weeks ago fishing offshore and water went through the scuppers into the cockpit but not to the point where the water came in so heavy that it listed to the star board side. I wonder if he did something to the extended bracket and may have created an water leak?

The odd thing was that he was sleeping in his v berth and didn't notice the leak until the boat listed to the starboard side to the point where his heater slid and caused them to wake up.

Wonder if anyone has any input as to why water was going into the starboard side of his boat. He said that his scuppers ride low in the water but I am suspecting that he hit something that caused his bracket to get damaged from the hull creating a leak????


Any input would help give him advice as his boat is in the shop now.
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Pacificcoast101



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 409
City/Region: Torrance
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: No Pressure
Photos: No Pressure
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It certainly sounds as if he has a leak. I've had my Tomcat in the water for nine years. It is normal for water to come in through the scuppers when you have four adults or a lot of gear at the stern. Once you move the weight away from the stern the water makes its way out again.
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2008 Tomcat 255
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16743
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way to find out, is to look at the bolts where they enter the transom. It could happen-- but would be unusual--however, there is no "solid" glass or epoxy thru the transom to take a "crush" load on those bolts--that is that the transom skins could be crushed--and thus allow water to enter around the bolt holes.

Once the boat begins to list, and even with a person in the forward bunk (no V berth in the Tom Cat). the water can enter the bilge via the "fish boxes"--the cockpit hatch leaches, and if water gets in the box, it can leak thru the hose going to the macerator, the macerator--or discharge hose... So the amount of water coming into the bilge will increase as the cockpit deck becomes awash via the scuppers. Then the automatic bilge pumps should remove the water.

It sounds as if there are a number of failures. The transom, or scupper leaking, failure of bilge pump to come on. No high water alarm, no secondary high capacity bilge pump to back up the factory bilge pump. This brings up the question: are the factory bilge pumps adequate?

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Bob you really give a lot of value to this site and I am thankful for your input and everyone else as well who gave input. I will inform my friend and see if I can get any more info. He is a new tomcat owner and loves the boat.
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So my friend informed me that he saw water coming through the scuppers. He went to bed at 1030pm and woke at 1am and there was about a foot of water in the cockpit from the starboard side. He bilged the water out with the factory bilge and the fish box bilge and took about 15min to get the water out. He said that it didn't happen the next day when he slipped on the boat the next night. I wonder why it would happen for that one night and not the next night. If the boat is already listing to the starboard side can it leak even more if it is already listing?
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Pacificcoast101



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 409
City/Region: Torrance
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: No Pressure
Photos: No Pressure
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned, when there is a lot of weight at the stern, water will enter the scuppers. Perhaps his starboard fish locker was full of water when he went to bed.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16743
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with PC 101. He had enough weight (water) in the fish box, or other weight in the stern, to allow the water to come into the cockpit. Lesson--never go to bed when there is water in the cockpit! Find the problem, and then resolve it. If things don't seem right at night--investigate--and make them right... Get up every couple of hours to survey the surroundings, other boats, weather condition, and any issues on your boat.
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gulfcoast john



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 433
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joechiro30,
I suspect you meant there was a foot of water in his starboard sponson...rather than that there was a 'foot of water in the cockpit'.

That would make it impossible to open the aft door on a 255 without flooding the interior of the boat with 10 inches of water. It would likely capsize with that.

Can you expand on your post regarding this to help us understand his situation?

John

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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am trying to make sense out of this too but my friend said that there was about a foot of water in the cockpit the boat was heavily listing to the starboard side. He said about a 45 degree angle but maybe exaggerating a bit. He was worry that the boat would sink.
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a design flaw that the scuppers are positioned that low near the water line. Do the newer Tomcats have the scuppers positioned higher so that they are further away from the water line.
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interior of the boat on the starboard side was flooded. He had to use the internal bilge pumps to pump the water out. The bilge pumps at the very bottom of the hull at the aft.

As Dr Bob said I may put a back up bilge on my boat as a safety precaution as will my buddy. His automatic bilge pump failed but he was able to bilge it out with his switch once he woke up and realized water was coming through the starboard scuppers
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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joechiro30 wrote:
Maybe a design flaw that the scuppers are positioned that low near the water line. Do the newer Tomcats have the scuppers positioned higher so that they are further away from the water line.


On almost all boats of this size, the issue with a "self bailing" cockpit is that the total amount of drop one can get from the cockpit floor to the waterline is limited. E.g. true self bailing works better the higher the cockpit floor is above the water line. As one moves the floor up (in design) the sides of the boat must go up also so that the sides/rails are high enough to contain a normal size human. As the sides get higher (in design) the boat looks uglier. Hence most builders make some compromises to get a deck that bails OK and a boat that looks good (the latter is a much bigger selling factor). The net result is invariably scuppers that are not too far above the water line in order to get enough drop for adequate drainage.

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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for explaining that Roger. Makes sense
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Gene Morris



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 369
City/Region: Eureka CA
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Reef Madness
Photos: Reefmadness
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We purchased our boat new in 2007. At delivery the dealer gave us plugs for the scuppers, I have never used them and do occasionally get water in the cockpit. The problem with the low scuppers have been known for many years. There hasn't been a great concern unless it is weighted aft. If the water is in the cockpit and not in the bilge the pumps won't work. I do get water in my bilge which I believe is a leak or bad connection on the hose that directs the water through the scupper. This is evidenced when we fish tuna. We have to wash down the deck frequently and there is excessive amounts of water in the bilge and the pump has to work more than I would think.

Gene

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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joechiro30 wrote:
So my friend informed me that he saw water coming through the scuppers. He went to bed at 1030pm and woke at 1am and there was about a foot of water in the cockpit from the starboard side. He bilged the water out with the factory bilge and the fish box bilge and took about 15min to get the water out. He said that it didn't happen the next day when he slipped on the boat the next night. I wonder why it would happen for that one night and not the next night. If the boat is already listing to the starboard side can it leak even more if it is already listing?


A piece of eel grass, fish guts or line can keep the rubber flapper from sealing. Add a stern heavy situation & water is going to leak in. I made a stainless flange to fit over the scupper's on the transom & added a 12" piece of 3" collapsible water hose with a grommet in the corner. I have a piece of 1/4 in line in the grommet, when stern heavy I pull the lines in & tie off to seal off the scuppers. I found this water through the scupper problem with 5 240+ pound guys halibut fishing (way stern heavy)
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Not a good pict. but you get the idea.[/url]
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