AIS overlay radar ???

[C-Val]

Hi Everyone

My main navigation setup is an ipad air on a ram mount using Navionics with a Garmin handheld for a backup My kids also bought me a SH gx1700 VHF with gps as a second backup

In addition to this I have a decent standalone Eagle depth sounder/fishfinder

I do have to replace, however, my old Apelco radar. I am thinking of buying Furuno 1715 standalone and a icom mxa5000 ais receive only to overlay on the radar

My primary question is has anyone overlaid ais on radar and is it a good idea? I have heard its possible but is it a good idea?

I don't see why I should invest in an expensive chartplotter for ais when I already have a decent navigation system. I would rather put my money into a new radar since as of now I don't have any

What is your opinion? Thanks

David and Val
btw - I primarily use my boat in the San Juans and the Gulf Islands for fishing and weekends

[20dauntless]

Look at Vesper Marine XB-8000. It's an AIS transceiver that shares AIS info via Wi-Fi. Connect the iPad to the Vesper Wi-Fi network and you'll get AIS overlay on certain apps (I use iNavX with Navionics charts). I've got one and find AIS data very useful.

[cmetzenberg]

AIS is a vhf broadcast information from vessels that broadcast AIS information. The vast majority of these vessels are commercial. The data broadcast can include vessel name, call sign, MMSI, course, speed, cargo, ect. This data should NEVER be used for collision avoidance and maneuvering purposes, it is only as good as the sensors on the vessel broadcasting it. For pleasure boaters the only useful data AIS will give you is the names of vessels near you, this is handy if you need to hail them over the radio. Asides from that, useless. As far as the AIS text messaging service goes, no one in industry uses it or ever checks it, kinda like digital selective calling (vhf-dsc).

[Da Nag]

[Bill K]

Da Nag,
What kind of radar do you have that is sucky beyond 1m ?

I will be getting radar in the near future so am curious.

Thank You

Bill Kelleher

[gulfcoast john]

C-val,
That 7" stand-alone LCD B/W Furuno 1715 radar is cute...I didn't know such a unit existed in today's MFD (Multi-function Display) mania.
http://furunousa.com/products/productdetail.aspx?product=1715
However, it makes no claims to be a MFD, and you wouldn't have any chartplotter function with it even if it accepts (no guarantee here) a NMEA 0183 input from the ICOM MXA500 black box AIS. (Good choice, since it can use your existing VHF antenna and many can't). Under Best Circumstances without chartplotter input, you'd see radar blob targets, some of which would have AIS target data (only if that boat is transmitting AIS data) but absolutely no relation to land or marine navigation charts. Glancing between two different Nav and Radar/AIS displays would not give you satisfactory situational awareness, unless you are at idle speeds IMHO (maybe not even then). I understand and support your not wanting to invest in a MFD when your current setup works for you. There aren't many 22 foot pleasure boats around here with radar (Dr. Bob excepted, as always, in spades).
I am a big fan of AIS and have owned receive-only then transmit/rec now rec-only units for 10 years. I lust after a Garmin HDx radar for my 4212/AIS 300, but I can't justify it as a fair-weather boater who never goes out if poor vis/fog/darkness are forecast . Agree with Cmetz that the biggest advantage of AIS is being able to hail the Target vessel by name. This alone is well worth the $220 price of AIS admission to me...every boating outing I am crossing a busy ICW chock full of commercial vessels that all look alike from 3 miles away, and I want to know which one EXACTLY I am talking to. All the power plants on the Gulf Coast are supplied coal by white/orange tow boats/barge units named "Our Lady of XYZ" often under 1 mile apart, and I need to know which Lady Of I am negotiating with. I think we can all agree that the price of admission of Radar is north of $1600 (for your cute LCD standalone, or a HD digital radome to connect to an existing MFD). A $220 AIS is well worth it, just to be able to hail by name most craft able to slice yours in half.
But you need an AIS that interfaces with your current chartplotter substitute setup...insert sad face here.
As always, YMMV.
Happy Boating!
John

[Da Nag]

[cmetzenberg]

[Da Nag]

[cmetzenberg]

My point exactly, you wouldn't want your ais data entering the model. Unfortunately there are systems out there that do just that. The old sperry units I used to operate did it. CPAs would be noticeably different with AIS overlay on vs off.

[Will-C]

I can't speak for everyone but I myself have found myself in fog after having left early am on a perfectly clear morning. After having a large (unknown) commercial blow his/her horn I made a decision to a 90 degree turn in an attempt to avoid a collision. After a bit I shut the engine and listened he blew again and I kept heading in the same direction and shut down again and listened. I could heard the engines but never saw the vessel. That was in 1995 on a 24' Grady White with Loran C, fish finder and a VHF .
I have on a number of occasions since found myself in fog. I didn't leave the dock in fog. So radar for me was a no brainer since I planned to cruise over distances with our 23' boat. Not just a day tripper. I'm sure lots of folks look at C-Dory's with radar and scoff; no matter. I know and trust my charts and my GPS but I have comfort in knowing if something big or small is out here in the fog I can avoid it. I'm looking at AIS not as a gizmo or to own the most tricked out small boat ,but we hope to go down the Mississippi river and I would like to be able to talk to the tug captains intelligently so I can ask them on what side to they want me if I intend to pass on bends etc.. In areas with a lot of ferries some high speed ferries (Pacific Northwest) I think AIS might be a real benefit. It's only has to save your ass once to be worth it. But to each there own. I just don't want to end up as a bow ornament on some ocean going tug or ferry.
D.D.

[C-Val]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and insights
I have learned so much by reading your comments!

As Gulfcoast John has said the Furuno 1715 is not a mfd and Furuno has confirmed it will not support AIS.

Looks like my only options are an AIS wifi, or a MFD chartplotter that I can actually afford Any suggestions? (remembering I do want to remove my broken radar for a new one about $1600) As I am typing this I am looking out the window of the cabin we use and fog is covering the tops of the islands near us. I never go out in it purposely but its scary if you get caught in it

Here in the San Juans and Gulf Islands the main shipping channel passes right through the islands For example if you are in Active Pass, a large ferry can pop around the corner of the island and suddenly there he is. I do listen to my radio carefully but it would give me peace of mind seeing in advance where they are

Thanks
David and Val

[thataway]

I find AIS as a very helpful tool, and one of many in the tool box. Currently I have the smallest (5") chart plotter dedicated to AIS--signal from the Standard Horizon radio. No one tool should be used.

A fair number of the C Dories have radar--including each one I have owned. I have several of the Furuno 1715's--they are fine, but they are also an older generation. If you were starting from scratch, I would probably go with Lowrance/Simrad, G3 radar, and SH radio as the source of AIS signal. If I wanted to be a lot fancier the Vespar with the class B transceiver. I happen to be overlooking the Straits of San Juan de Fuca currently--and it was socked in with fog--now that fog is up on in Sequim. I think that in the PNW a good radar is almost essential.

I won't go into the deficiencies of AIS, but I would say 90% of signals I see are correct in all respects--most often is some data entry (like a each with a length of 300 meters), rather than sensor. But it certainly can occur.

I happen to have Garmin chart plotters MDF--I find them the easiest to use. So I stuck with Garmin when I recently upgraded. I also find that a radar screen has to be at least 7" for me to be comfortable reading it--and in the old radars, that meant a 7" cathode ray tube, and a magnifier to give it the appearance of a 12" screen.

If I was doing a lot of boating up in the PNW, especially at night and year around, I would have a Class B AIS. The cost is now down to about what a MFD costs.

The Lowrance/ Simrad G3 G4, gives excellent discrimination (separation of targets) close in. It uses minimal power, and less health risks. In the past there was some criticism about its performance over 6 to 10 miles, but that may have improved with the most recent upgrades. AIS often will show vessels at some distance. I am more worried about the small boats, and even Kayaks, more than the large ships.

As with any tool, the more you use it, the better your skills become. I am one who does not run the radar all of the time (some do because they interpute the rules as requiring it. The better reason is to be able to identify the radar target, and the visual target for learning purposes. Adding AIS to this added to the knowledge. I mostly do radar overlay in my mind, but I have been doing this for years. The chart overlay can be valuable, but it can fool you too...

[Sunbeam]

[starcrafttom]

Hi, I want to get in on several points here. The difference between useful and needed as it pertains to radar, ais, and chart plotter.

Radar--Very use full for a range of applications including fog. I find that radar is a under used resource in good weather. On very sunny days ( yes we have then here, no not today) it can be hard to impossible to see a small ( under 30 ft boat) traveling fast right at you. They hide in the sun light and shimmering waves on the waters surface. I have spotted a lot of small craft including kayaks and open boats on clear days on radar. It is also usefull for telling alot about the fog. How thick, how dense and the same goes for rain. So is it needed? In this area of the PNW YES YES and YES. I would not want to travel with out it. Fog comes and fog goes and it does not tell anyone when and where. We have only gotten to or from the SJ's for a enjoyable weekend because we could get thru 30 mins of fog. Do not let the lack of radar stop you from enjoying a other wise sunny weekend.

p.s. over lay- Mine has not worked in a year and because of that I do not use my radar nearly as much as I did. When using the radar over lay I think I would rather have radar and AIS over lay and set the detail to un-clutter then to have no over lay. In general having everything on one screen just makes life easier and faster then having to scan multiply screens and combined it together in your head. I will say that multiply screens come in handy for different information. Fish finder on one and maps / radar/ ais on the other.

Ais- Nice toy that can have some uses. More use in the ICW then the NW. Yes we have traffic here but not as much and with a whole lot more room to maneuver. I have added ch. 5 to the scan on my VHF so I can monitor the commercial traffic. I just don't put to much stock in it as so few people use it. Not even all the commercial traffic use it. As an example none of the whale watching boats here are required to use it yet and I have a better chance of encountering them then any other traffic. If I was upgrading I would get it but I would get radar first. Radar shows everything in range, Ais only shows a very small percentage of what is out there. Most small boat collisions are with... small boats not commercial traffic.

MFD- have to admit to two thing. I don't like the high price and don't understand the desire to spend time and money not to have one. If you enjoy trying to get 5 different things to do the out of the box job of one screen then more power to you but that's time that could be spent fishing or boating. Most of the new units now have a the ability to share both info and control with a pad or phone via Wi Fi. When I upgrade it will be with a MFD on the dash and pad a the rear station.