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C-Pup lesson on ethanol woes
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C-Pup16 in Los Angeles



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 237
City/Region: Los Angeles
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Pup
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: C-Pup lesson on ethanol woes Reply with quote

Hi Phil,

I was disabled last Sunday in the shipping lanes. Pretty scary. Lucky it was Sunday and no ships threatened me. I also had a clear, sunny day with flat seas, so swells or ship wake to roll me over. I had to wait three hours for Boat U.S. to tow me back to MdR. I kept drifting further into the shipping lanes.

My problem was that I left the boat unused for a year without running the gas out of the motor, or adding stabilizer. Stupid me. The carburetors became gummed up from the corn syrup that ethanol leaves after the alcohol evaporates. I did have the motor serviced in June. I told the mechanic (M&K Marine) it had a problem starting, and told him about my mistake of leaving stale gas sit in it for so long. He blew "gunk-out" into the intake and added fuel cleaner to the gas to try to clean it, but that wasn't enough. Last Sunday I had trouble starting the motor cold, but did get it going with starter spray and it seemed fine at cruising speed. Then when I trolled in the shipping lane, it conked out and that was it. Even starting spray could not get it started again. I called Kimiko at church and asked her to interrupt the service to ask everyone to pray that no ship would appear and run me over. My tithe pledge was current, so they did. I then did a bit of praying, recounting all my sins (three hours goes by fast doing that) and asked God to give me a second chance. He did.

All this past week, C-Pup was at Regency Boats (a Yamaha dealer) in MdR where their mechanic did a diagnosis, removed the four carbs, striped them down to parts, cleaned the parts and reassembled them for $750. I had no time for a sea trial, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Kimiko wants to know if my life insurance is paid up.

Anyway, I'll have the sweet corn and butter, so the crew who likes their corn better tow me to the Isthmus if all the money I paid to end my outboard woes has not done the trick.

Lesson:
1) Use fuel stabilizer (expensive stuff) if you have a fixed tank; I always have a 3 gallon tank to switch to before entering MdR on a return trip. I'll now always have fuel stabilizer added to that tank.
2) When at the dock at the end of your outing, disconnect the gas line and let the outboard run dry.
3) Probably also good to have a $100 bill pinned to your pennant flag when asking another boater to be helpful and tow you...

I look forward to seeing you again.

Be well,
Keith
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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith-

Glad you're OK, and the ships didn't materalize with you and C-Pup in their crosshairs! Smile

You're account is hilarious (once one realizes you're OK, and the danger has passed. Laughing

Enjoy your trip to Catalina, hopefully without another Adventure Grande! CoolSmile

Joe. Teeth Thumbs Up

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"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous
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C-jeep



Joined: 12 Jul 2013
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City/Region: Maple Bay
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1987
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Vessel Name: C-Jeep
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Times like that is when your kicker is worth it weight hanging off your transom. Sea conditions were in your favor. Glad things turned out well.
Cheers
Chris

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Maple Bay, BC
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: C-Pup lesson on ethanol woes Reply with quote

C-Pup16 in Los Angeles wrote:

Lesson:

2) When at the dock at the end of your outing, disconnect the gas line and let the outboard run dry.


One note is that letting the outboard run until it is out of fuel does not get the gas completely out of the carburetor(s). So it can still gum them up. After you run the engine dry you would then drain the carburetors, if you want all the fuel out of them. There is typically a small screw you turn right on each carb - just a small amount of gas comes out.
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jkidd



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a better solution would be to just take it fishing every month. Laughing
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dotnmarty



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad it all worked out. Now get a kicker, any kicker!
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"...we're all in the same boat..."
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jennykatz



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: fuel problems Reply with quote

we had a problem with fuel when we first had our 16 cruiser we put in a 10 micron water separator filter and used only non ethanol fuel probably hard to find in CARB land ? then had carb redone and no fuel problems again . when you lay up boat with carbs you must get all the fuel out of carbs . We use startron and buy only MARINE fuel no 10% ethanol fuel . Hope your problems are behind you . If going out in Pacific Ocean I would get a little kicker a 3 1/2 hp would be plenty for a 16ft . there is no where to hide Good Luck .
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potter water



Joined: 12 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, only sin you committed was not having a little 2 hp kicker on the stern. Might only use a kicker to get yer butt out of the sling a couple times in a lifetime, but for the price and piece of mind, well worth it. My kickers have a separate fuel supply carried under the engine cover of the kicker. Winterizing is just tip the gas out into a container, run the engine 'till it quits, and you will be good to go. Oh, by the way, only run non-ethanol in the kicker.

I also use the kicker for trolling and save the wear and tear on the big motor (s).

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chucko



Joined: 12 Jul 2011
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City/Region: Davidson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:53 pm    Post subject: Bad gas Reply with quote

THE best thing to do is avoid ethanol added fuel PERIOD.
Around here I asked a new Shell station to add non ethanol fuel and they did,very good seller for them .
There is a bill,H.R. 875, sponsor Jim Sensebrenner (R-WI) which is supposed to encourage evaluation of the scientific research on the detrimental effects of this additive . some people would increase the mix to 15 or 20 percent if they can get away with it. Nip it in the bud ,friends don't let friends mix corn and boating.

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I say that every time I wax the boat.

1997 22 cruiser, sold may 2023
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teflonmom



Joined: 16 May 2004
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Vessel Name: Snickers AUG 08
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advise from all. I did not have an easy way to get non ethanol fuel. I used Startron in every tank of fuel. My Honda 90
had carb problems from early on in life. It may have been dirt from the factory. I stopped draining the carbs on my lawn equipment just used Startron. Even the old two stroke lawn mower always started in the spring. In the C Dory I left about 1/8 tank of fuel over the winter dosed with Startron and did not run the fuel out of the carbs. In the spring I filled up with fresh fuel and the 90 started up just fine and always ran A OK. Just the way it worked for me.

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Taran



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: ethanol Reply with quote

We had a problem with our new Honda kicker, which we didn't use last year, (only 3 hours on it). It wouldn't start, so we took it to King Salmon Marine in Tacoma. We were advised that we had a LOT of water in our fuel, both tanks, and it was a miracle that our Honda 90 fuel injected motor ran ok. They drained our fuel, which was ethanol free, and then drained and cleaned both tanks, saving a small bag of fuel line chunks (which settled in both tanks) to show us. Very sobering! Our motors are just 2 years old, and we always use fuel stabilizer and try to get ethanol free fuel. Our C Dory is a 2006. We had so much trouble with the original carbuerated Honda engine that we bought a new one and added a kicker.
If the fuel in both tanks is contaminated with water, your kicker won't be usable. They recommended having a small tank with a gallon of fuel as a stand by tank, for emergency use. What a pain!
What is the benefit again of having ethanol added to our fuel? Helps the farmers????
We spent over a $1,000 but at least, our new engines were spared from the chunks of dissolved stuff in our tanks.
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Bill K



Joined: 28 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: ethanol Reply with quote

I have a six gallon portable tank between my main tanks for the kicker.

Bill Kelleher


Taran wrote:
We had a problem with our new Honda kicker, which we didn't use last year, (only 3 hours on it). It wouldn't start, so we took it to King Salmon Marine in Tacoma. We were advised that we had a LOT of water in our fuel, both tanks, and it was a miracle that our Honda 90 fuel injected motor ran ok. They drained our fuel, which was ethanol free, and then drained and cleaned both tanks, saving a small bag of fuel line chunks (which settled in both tanks) to show us. Very sobering! Our motors are just 2 years old, and we always use fuel stabilizer and try to get ethanol free fuel. Our C Dory is a 2006. We had so much trouble with the original carbuerated Honda engine that we bought a new one and added a kicker.
If the fuel in both tanks is contaminated with water, your kicker won't be usable. They recommended having a small tank with a gallon of fuel as a stand by tank, for emergency use. What a pain!
What is the benefit again of having ethanol added to our fuel? Helps the farmers????
We spent over a $1,000 but at least, our new engines were spared from the chunks of dissolved stuff in our tanks.

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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be a contrariant, but to me it seems like the primary problem here (and another example above) was not due to ethanol but due to lack of use over an extended period of time without draining the carbs. On my previous 22, I used fuel with ethanol in it almost exclusively since that was what was available where I fueled. I never had a problem in 8 years of operation. But I either ran the engines dry prior to long periods of disuse and/or I used the boat at least once every month. Also, if you have a fuel injected engine, don't run it dry.
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Captains Cat



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bet you also checked/cleaned Racor,s every year and checked the one under the cowl too? We did on our '94 22 with twin 45's on it!

Charlie

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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Checked the records most every trip and had the fuel filters in the engine replaced each year as part of the regular maintenance.
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