Bay Star vs. Sea Star on 22 Cruiser: Understanding the diffs

[Captains Cat]

Seastar or Baystar?

Charlie

[Will-C]

I would value Marc from Wefings assessment that Sea Star was / is the winner. In spite of some owners having had good luck with the Bay Star version, Florida I think has a much higher salinity than Alaska. That might attribute to the reported Bay Star failures. Plus no matter how hardy the individual from Alaska might be the boating season in Florida is all year long. Saving the $ 250 dollars is a point for some, but you already blew a pile of dollars on the boat but IMHO why not buy a little extra insurance if you are replacing it anyway and land the Sea Star version. Got Bay Star already no problem keep it. Want to save 250 dollars get the Bay Star. No matter what you have buy having an extra cable if you still have cable steering, a seal kit and some spare hydraulic fluid for the hydraulic crowd. For me I would use what hydraulic oil the manufacturer recommends. Remember a funnel or hose with push pin and ziplock bag to get the replacement fluid into the system Oh yeah, fashion some sort of emergency steering system, remember besides looking hulky duck tape is your friend. This thread might never have a conclusion. Watch your spelling mommy is watching.

Joe King

[Jake]

Per the web site, Les uses BayStar on the Marinaut. Just to save $250? I don't know, would guess he feels it is a very reliable system.

[Will-C]

I'm sure Bay Star is a dependable system. In Marc's (Wefing's) area of the country he thinks differently. Beings that I boat on the east coast including Florida I value Marc's opinion over Les's from Marinaut but that's just me. Just opinions here and you are certainly allowed to have your own. If I was buying a Marinaut I would have Les put on the Sea Star. But that's just me.
Joe King

[Sunbeam]

What I like about reading Les's recommendations (for steering or other items) is that he explains his reasoning in detail. I learn something, and, more importantly to me, I also have the chance to decide whether his priorities/reasons are also mine. IF he said he were putting on Bay Star just to save $250 (actually it seems like more difference than that by the time you buy the lines, but that's neither here nor there at the moment), but that otherwise the Sea Star was more appropriate, then I would likely decide that his reason wasn't my reason and I would somewhat discount his opinion (in this particular case). On the other hand, if (as it was in 2002), he chose it because it was a tidier fit, then I could likewise decide whether or not that was a priority for me. Either way I understand the details of how he made his choice, which is a big help to me in making mine. I don't know why he is choosing Bay Star now (but I am glad he is apparently busy building boats).

Thing is, oftentimes it's not about "best" - to me - in making my decisions. I mean hey, a 250# anchor is better and more expensive than a 20# one... right? But... not for my 22 -- and I would not consider the 20# one to be cheaping out for my particular boat. It's appropriate and fits. Granted, that is an extreme example, and not directly comparable to Bay Star vs. Sea Star, but I'm just using it to explain my thinking and why I don't automatically go for the Sea Star. There seems to be some misunderstanding in regards to my choice being "about price," which it is not. I mean, I wouldn't have needed to ask if it was all about price, as I could simply have looked online and then purchased the Bay Star.

I may very well choose the Sea Star in the end. I started this thread to learn some of the differences, as applied to our specific boats, so I could make an informed choice. I like to hear from those who already have either system on a C-Dory (because that's the type of thing that is not easy to find on the Teleflex website and/or other forums).

[Big Mac]

Hello Sunbeam, maybe I can help here with your decision. I have both BayStar hydraulic steering and Les installed it. We bought our C-dory 22' cruiser new in 2001. It had the factory cable steering. It worked fine for many years and then we started having stiff steering and also it would lock up over the winter.

Flash forward to 2011 and we decided to upgrade to hydraulic steering. I had several conversations with Les at EQ and had him install BayStar steering and Lenco trim tabs at the same time. After It was installed I wondered, why did I wait so long. We are really happy with both items. Les and I discussed the difference between BayStar and SeaStar and agreed BayStar was perfect for our boat. We have twin 40hp Hondas. You will not go wrong with BayStar.

[Kushtaka]

[thataway]

I have had a number of hydraulic boat steering systems. Most have served us well. The Tom Cat Sea Star failed on the second real trip--but that was with counter rotating twins, in an aggressive reverse situation. The larger sized pump sent by Teleflex did well without fail. There was a comment that the pump used was not the proper size for the two 150 hp outboards.

Not locking the outboards on our boats, when trailering, is hard on the hydraulic systems.

On our European trip (41,000 miles at sea) we had to rebuild both the Hynautics helm pumps (company now owned by Sea Star solution) once each, as well as new seals in the cylinder. Most of the problem was caused by debris left in the copper pipes when the boat was built. (Half way across the Atlantic in 70 knots of breeze, is probably as remote asThe Bush in AK. )

I also found out that it took an 8 foot emergency tiller a lot of pressure to over come 1000 PSI pressure relief valves.

[Sunbeam]

[journey on]

Kushtaka,

In the reliability field, there's a term called infant mortality. This means, as you probably know, that items will fail at the start of life due to some undiscovered manufacturing defect. Isn't it reasonable to assume that this is what happened within the first 5 hours of operation, since SeaStar steering isn't prone to such early failures? For instance a seal could have been nicked when installed, or a hose improperly connected.

Or was there some reason that caused it to fail? Bob/thataway mentions that he blew out his steering backing down with a pair of 150's, which would indicate that the steering was overstressed. So were you using the steering in some stressful situation?

As to removing a leaking pump, plugging the lines, re-bleeding the system and going on, one certainly could. If one is that concerned about a steering failure, install shutoff vales in the system on one could isolate the failed part. I still feel that Seastar steering is reliable enough so those measures are not needed. My opinion.

Boris

[thataway]

Other than the initial failure, my Sea/Bay Star systems have been relititively trouble free. Yes, Boris, I think that hard reversing was stressing the steering. The counter rotating engines, would probably have more torque from the props in reverse, than going forward--because of the design of propellors. I was able to steer the boat back to the dock--only hundred yards--even though the engines were going in different directions. It may have been infant mortality--but the senior VP of Sea Star felt that the wrong helm unit had been used. (I called Sea Star almost immediately, because I had a boat full of people who wanted a ride. The only person in the office was a senior vice president, who arranged for overnight shipping of a new helm unit. Our guest went for a ride in the Century 18 center console, not the new Tom Cat 255.


Sunbeam, There are hard rubber blocks, as used on the tilt/lift cylinders to keep the motor centered. You can make wooden or plastic blocks or even slip heavy tubing over the cylinder arms. The engine will slowly drift to one side--and this is hard on the hydraulic system, since this is all "creep" which is a characteristic of hydraulic steering. If you had sailed a sail boat with hydraulic steering you would have experienced hydraulic creep, where the wheel slowly--maybe even imperceptably moves to the side where you have pressure against a weather helm.

[Sunbeam]

[Jake]

[Sea Wolf]

I wrote Les an email today and asked him to comment on this thread if he has the time to spare.

Joe.

[rogerbum]