Bay Star vs. Sea Star on 22 Cruiser: Understanding the diffs

Sunbeam

In a classic example of "it's all connected," the tidying up of wiring behind the helm is leading me to want to replace my Teleflex cable steering with hydraulic steering (this isn't the only reason - I have others - but if I am going to replace it, it makes sense to arrange the tidied wiring around the new steering vs. the big ol' lump of Teleflex that is behind the helm now).

My current decision is.... Bay Star or Sea Star. I see that Bay Star is fully adequate (22 Cruiser with usual size single main engine), and that Sea Star can also work and is "above" the Bay Star in the model hierarchy. What I want to fully understand before choosing is the differences and the pro's and cons of each. From what I think I know now (although I'm not completely clear on these things):

Bay Star

1) Adequate although "below" Sea Star.
2) May have lines that are easier to cut to size?
3) Has steering arm style in splashwell that is smaller/tidier - something about which part moves and which part is fixed...
4) Has available inset/angled mount, but no tilt option.

Sea Star
1) More robust for 22 (although Bay Star may be perfectly adequate).
2) May have lines that are somehow more complicated to cut to size (?)
3) Has steering arm in splashwell that works "opposite" to Bay Star and may be less compact/tidy in operation?
4) Can be had with tilt steering option.

Thoughts:

1) Although I'm all for heavy-duty, if it's not needed then it may not matter.
2) I don't mind a bit more fuss during installation if there is a good reason for it; at least it only happens once.
3) I would like to understand this - and its ramifications - better, as the splashwell is already "busy" in my 22.
4) I don't really tend to actively use a tilt wheel, so it would be more just to have options as to where to "set it" initially. I may not need that if the inset/fixed-angle on the Bay Star suits me... but of course how do I know that in advance?

Can anyone point me to splashwell photos of a Sea Star system in a 22 with a single main? That seems to be a less "usual" choice so harder to find in the albums without knowing what I am looking for.

Open to any other comments as well.

Thanks,
Sunbeam

srbaum · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject:

Sunbeam,
Here is a photo of my SeaStar ram in the splashwell.

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album1847&id=photo5&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

My Rigid Hull Inflatable has the BayStar system. I'll take a photo and send it for comparison. The ram seal failed on this unit when I was off shore...I had to hand steer the 90 Honda to get home. I will be changing it to a SeaStar or a Ultraflex this spring, as I have repaired the ram and the helm more than 4 times.

Wefings · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject:

Tons of problems with Bay Star , go Sea Star.
Don't cheap out on steering ..............
Marc

AK Angler · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject:

Wefings · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject:

Yes you are lucky, most of the systems fail by leakage at the cylinder within a year to a year and a half.
The sea star system is much more robust and suited for a saltwater application. We use our boats year around here in Florida and we have seen many cylinders fail at a year.
also the bigger the engine the quicker they will fail.
Marc

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:48 pm Post subject:

AK Angler · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject:

If I was out fitting a boat and switching to a hydraulic system, I would go with Sea Star. Go over to The Hull Truth, and see where many failures of the Bay Star are documented. I do have a Bay Star on my 18 foot Caracal. It works, and is "adequate". The boat is lighter than A C Dory, although the engine is larger. The C Dory has the Sea Star. The difference in cost is about $250. The hoses on the Sea Star are more robust as is the cylinder and pump at the helm.

Barry Rietz · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject: Hydraulic Steering

Sunbeam, Since you are going to replace the complete steering system have a look at the "Wagner 700 Series" small vessel application. This system allows for adding second "stations" by just splicing into the lines. They also have a small simple "auto-pilot" pump application if required.

AK Angler · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:59 pm Post subject:

Captains Cat · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject:

AKA, just out of curiosity, what steering do you have on the 26'?

Charlie

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject:

AK Angler · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject:

Captains Cat - I have the SeaStar system on the 26-footer. It certainly makes sense in that case, as the twin Honda 90's exceed the Baystar's 150-hp max rating.

But, based on my seven years of experience using the BayStar system on my Arima's 90-hp motors, I'm just not convinced that the more expensive SeaStar system is necessary for similarly mid-powered boats - like Sunbeams 80-horse Yammie.

Of course, if somebody wants to spend the extra money, they certainly can. There's definitely something to be said for doing what makes you feel comfortable, even if that added comfort costs a bit more.

And, if there is a documented difference in reliability, that would also be a big concern. But, while there are folks that are quick to point out that there have been failures with the BayStar system, they seem to ignore all the similar SeaStar failures. That - I just don't get.

Hunkydory · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:28 pm Post subject:

I have to concur with AKA about the Bay Star being more than adequate for the 22 C-dory. With the Bay Star being rated for 150 hp, I couldn't see where my twin Honda 40's would stress it. I had it installed in July of 2005 & now have 900 hours on it & three major Alaska cruises without any leaks or other problems other than having to re tighten fittings at the ram following bleeding air from working on the auto pilot & having to reverse the hoses put on back wards to the ram by the installer. Those incorrect connections to the ram made for some exciting docking the first time I launched on Yellowstone lake following the installation.

Jay

SEA3PO · Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:20 am Post subject:

Ha ! I love it...now I will admit to hooking up my automatic trim tabs backwards.... made a hard turn and almost tipped the boat over... like an airplane doing a roll... scared the heck out of me.

I purchased all the parts for my steering system separately and I should have gone with the Sea Star Pump and the Bay Star assembly... it worked fine for years..... only reason I dislike the Bay Star helm is that the shaft seal has such a poor design... the newer Bay Star pumps have a better design seal and would not have the same problem... I don't know if I can trust it now even though it is not leaking.

I had my lines made up at a hydraulic hose supply....much less expense.
I also use synthetic steering fluid.... not the $28 a quart stuff..
Amazon sells Sea Star parts at a real discount.

Joel
SEA3PO