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RobMcClain
Joined: 21 May 2012 Posts: 355 City/Region: Summerlin, NV
State or Province: NV
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Freedom
Photos: Freedom
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: BayStar Hydraulic Steering |
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Our Venture is powered by a Honda BF150 and the steering is assisted by a BayStar hyrdraulic unit. This is the first powerboat I have owned that has hydraulic steering so I am not accustomed to it. I am used to having a quickly responsive helm so that when I turned the wheel (or tiller) the engine (or rudder) also moved at a similar rate and the boat noticably began to respond. I guess you might call it "tight" steering, like in a car.
With our current BayStar system, it seems to take several rotations of the wheel to get the engine to meaningfully turn. Even little course corrections take a lot of wheel movement, not just a slight turn of the wheel but a big rotation to get any response. Maybe this is normal with hydraulic steering, but I really don't know. The wheel certainly turns easily; it is just the amount of turns required that I don't like.
The hydraulic fluid is properly full and when I had the boat serviced many months ago the tech said the system operated just fine. So is this normal and something I just need to adjust to? I would really like a tight responsive system, one that quickly responds to movement of the wheel and not one that is so loose. Is there something I can do to tighten it up?
Rob |
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beermanPDX
Joined: 01 Feb 2012 Posts: 261 City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Rob,
The easiest way to figure out if you have an issue is to count the number of full wheel turns, hard over to hard over. The Baystar system states that it should be 5 full wheel turns, lock to lock.
http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/hydraulic-new/outboard-new/baystar/
If it takes you more than 5 turns, then you have an issue. Most likely air in the system and it needs to be bled. If it's 5 turns, then it's working as designed....unfortunately. In order to reduce that number, you'd need to get the pump to push more fluid than it's designed to. I'm not aware of any way to accomplish that.
You could change out to a bigger helm pump in order to push more fluid (reduce lock to lock), but you'd need to be sure that the cylinder could handle it. _________________ Cheers
Rob
2008 25 Cruiser - Sold
2002 Nordic Tug 32/4 - Sold
1989 40 Tollycraft Sport Sedan |
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RobMcClain
Joined: 21 May 2012 Posts: 355 City/Region: Summerlin, NV
State or Province: NV
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Freedom
Photos: Freedom
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Rob. I suspect it is 5 turns side to side but will check. I've also downloaded the manual from the website for reference. Should have done that before... Might be I just need to adjust to this.
Rob |
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ghone
Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 1429 City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Rob. The Baystar is rated to 150hp so you're right at the limit. The seastar helm and ram may be a better fit. We have the Seastar on 90 hp mostly as I wanted the tilt helm. We're 5 turns lock to lock. One thing I've noticed is quite a few people want to "steer" the boat a lot. My partner was oversteering for quite a while. You don't need to correct for every little deviation from course. It results in PIO. Pilot Induced Occilation. The c dory tends to want to go strait. It may take a few hours to get used to. Enjoy the boat! George |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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It it takes a a revolution of the wheel to begin to turn, there is most likely air in the system, and it needs to be bled. Look at the engine when at rest, as you turn the wheel, the engine should begin to noticably turn, with a 1/8 of a turn of the wheel. There is a little slack in hydraulic steering--but not as much as you describe. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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AK Angler
Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 327 City/Region: South Central
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Rod Holder
Photos: Rod Holder
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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It shouldn't take several rotations of the wheel to get the engine to turn. Sounds to me like there's either air in the system and it needs to be properly bled, or there is some component(s) in the system that has failed - possibly a bad check valve in the helm.
I'd contact customer service at SeaStar Solutions and ask them what they think. _________________ -Rod
89CD16A- The Navicula has been sold... |
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nordicstallion
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 380 City/Region: Crescent City
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Rylee Rose
Photos: Rylee Rose
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I switched from cable to hydraulic. The cable was more responsive in that it took 3 1/2 turns stop to stop but was a lot harder to turn & gave quite a workout. I put a suicide knob on my wheel that makes turning much easier & I can turn with one hand. I'd never go back. Vern |
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Wefings Dealer
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2086 City/Region: Panhandle
State or Province: FL
Photos: Cruise Ship #4
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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The Baystar system is prone to leaking at the cylinder at the engine . Feel around the splashwell for oil and see if you feel some where the shiny stainless shaft comes out of the cylinder . The oils is clear and light .
They are max rated at 150 HP . They often have issues in the first couple years .
Marc _________________ Wefings Marine Website
Since 1909 |
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potter water
Joined: 12 Apr 2011 Posts: 1076 City/Region: Logan
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 1997
C-Dory Model: R-21 Tug
Vessel Name: Poopsy
Photos: Still C-razy
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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My baystar, pushing two 50hp motors is tight. Move the helm an inch or two and the motors move. Love it way more than the mechanical links. _________________ You can tell a man his wife is ugly, but never ever criticize his dog, his gun, his truck or his boat.
Never let ignorance interfere with an opportunity to state a knowledgeable opinion
Testosterone Tales-Amazon.com
2006 C-Dory 22 Cruiser 2008-2014
1997 Ranger Tug 21 Classic 2016
KG7RC |
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Jack in Alaska
Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 1190 City/Region: Anchorage/Ninilchik
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 26 Pro Angler
Vessel Name: HIGH TIDE II
Photos: HIGH TIDE II
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: Saving money |
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FYI........the seals in the cylinder end caps can be replaced with new ones for approx. $28 from a good hydraulic shop. The new end caps from SeaStar are approx. $125. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Posts: 3990 City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Not an informational comment, because I don't have any, but just to say I'm reading with interest. My boat has cable steering, which so far seems to work fine, but.... a couple of hours running is a bit of a workout, which seems to "settle" into my neck muscles. So I have hydraulic steering on my list of potential future upgrades. It's more complicated than just that though (of course, it's a boat! ) because my autopilot is not one that would work with hydraulic, so that would also have to be replaced. Hence I'm reading and considering future moves.
At any rate, if Freedom's steering was "normal," I was thinking I would rather have the cable, which at least feels like "direct drive." But reading further, it sounds like the hydraulic is normally tighter, and would likely be an improvement I would enjoy. Good discussion, thanks
Sunbeam |
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AK Angler
Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 327 City/Region: South Central
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Rod Holder
Photos: Rod Holder
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Sunbeam wrote: | .... a couple of hours running is a bit of a workout, which seems to "settle" into my neck muscles. ...
Sunbeam |
That's why I'll never own a cable steered boat again. I've found that hydraulic steering is much easier on the captain - especially during long runs. |
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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012 Posts: 581 City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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nordicstallion wrote: | I switched from cable to hydraulic. The cable was more responsive in that it took 3 1/2 turns stop to stop but was a lot harder to turn & gave quite a workout. I put a suicide knob on my wheel that makes turning much easier & I can turn with one hand. I'd never go back. Vern |
I too installed a suicide knob / necker knob, on our boat and it is a great way to get the steering wheel turned in a hurry. I have found it to be very helpful for manuvering in tight quarters and you can turn the wheel with your left hand quickly while maintaining throttle control with the right hand.
Highly recommend it as an inexpensive $20 upgrade. |
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005 Posts: 2154 City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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We've put 1100 hours on our Baystar steering. Had to replace end seals on the piston at the engines at about 800 hours. The steering is tight, just a slight movement to get movement on the engines. No problems with broken or rusted cables, no need to take them out every year or two to re-lube; we're happy with the hydraulics. By the way, if you look at the baystar owners manual it will note that several brands of aviation brake fluid are approved substitutes for the very pricy Baystar fluid, cuts costs by about 50-75%. _________________ Patti and Barry
formerly C-Cakes, now
rving around N. America |
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005 Posts: 2154 City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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We've put 1100 hours on our Baystar steering. Had to replace end seals on the piston at the engines at about 800 hours. The steering is tight, just a slight movement to get movement on the engines. No problems with broken or rusted cables, no need to take them out every year or two to re-lube; we're happy with the hydraulics. By the way, if you look at the baystar owners manual it will note that several brands of aviation brake fluid are approved substitutes for the very pricy Baystar fluid, cuts fluid costs by about 50-75% when you have to do maintenance. |
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