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BayStar Hydraulic Steering
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RobMcClain



Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 355
City/Region: Summerlin, NV
State or Province: NV
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Freedom
Photos: Freedom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: BayStar Hydraulic Steering Reply with quote

Our Venture is powered by a Honda BF150 and the steering is assisted by a BayStar hyrdraulic unit. This is the first powerboat I have owned that has hydraulic steering so I am not accustomed to it. I am used to having a quickly responsive helm so that when I turned the wheel (or tiller) the engine (or rudder) also moved at a similar rate and the boat noticably began to respond. I guess you might call it "tight" steering, like in a car.

With our current BayStar system, it seems to take several rotations of the wheel to get the engine to meaningfully turn. Even little course corrections take a lot of wheel movement, not just a slight turn of the wheel but a big rotation to get any response. Maybe this is normal with hydraulic steering, but I really don't know. The wheel certainly turns easily; it is just the amount of turns required that I don't like.

The hydraulic fluid is properly full and when I had the boat serviced many months ago the tech said the system operated just fine. So is this normal and something I just need to adjust to? I would really like a tight responsive system, one that quickly responds to movement of the wheel and not one that is so loose. Is there something I can do to tighten it up?

Rob
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beermanPDX



Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 261
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Photos: Jean Marie
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob,

The easiest way to figure out if you have an issue is to count the number of full wheel turns, hard over to hard over. The Baystar system states that it should be 5 full wheel turns, lock to lock.

http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/hydraulic-new/outboard-new/baystar/

If it takes you more than 5 turns, then you have an issue. Most likely air in the system and it needs to be bled. If it's 5 turns, then it's working as designed....unfortunately. In order to reduce that number, you'd need to get the pump to push more fluid than it's designed to. I'm not aware of any way to accomplish that.

You could change out to a bigger helm pump in order to push more fluid (reduce lock to lock), but you'd need to be sure that the cylinder could handle it.

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Rob
2008 25 Cruiser - Sold
2002 Nordic Tug 32/4 - Sold
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RobMcClain



Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 355
City/Region: Summerlin, NV
State or Province: NV
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Freedom
Photos: Freedom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rob. I suspect it is 5 turns side to side but will check. I've also downloaded the manual from the website for reference. Should have done that before... Might be I just need to adjust to this.

Rob
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ghone



Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 1428
City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob. The Baystar is rated to 150hp so you're right at the limit. The seastar helm and ram may be a better fit. We have the Seastar on 90 hp mostly as I wanted the tilt helm. We're 5 turns lock to lock. One thing I've noticed is quite a few people want to "steer" the boat a lot. My partner was oversteering for quite a while. You don't need to correct for every little deviation from course. It results in PIO. Pilot Induced Occilation. The c dory tends to want to go strait. It may take a few hours to get used to. Enjoy the boat! George
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It it takes a a revolution of the wheel to begin to turn, there is most likely air in the system, and it needs to be bled. Look at the engine when at rest, as you turn the wheel, the engine should begin to noticably turn, with a 1/8 of a turn of the wheel. There is a little slack in hydraulic steering--but not as much as you describe.
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Thataway
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AK Angler



Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 327
City/Region: South Central
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Rod Holder
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It shouldn't take several rotations of the wheel to get the engine to turn. Sounds to me like there's either air in the system and it needs to be properly bled, or there is some component(s) in the system that has failed - possibly a bad check valve in the helm.

I'd contact customer service at SeaStar Solutions and ask them what they think.

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89CD16A- The Navicula has been sold...
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nordicstallion



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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City/Region: Crescent City
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched from cable to hydraulic. The cable was more responsive in that it took 3 1/2 turns stop to stop but was a lot harder to turn & gave quite a workout. I put a suicide knob on my wheel that makes turning much easier & I can turn with one hand. I'd never go back. Vern
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Wefings
Dealer


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
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State or Province: FL
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Baystar system is prone to leaking at the cylinder at the engine . Feel around the splashwell for oil and see if you feel some where the shiny stainless shaft comes out of the cylinder . The oils is clear and light .
They are max rated at 150 HP . They often have issues in the first couple years .
Marc

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potter water



Joined: 12 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My baystar, pushing two 50hp motors is tight. Move the helm an inch or two and the motors move. Love it way more than the mechanical links.
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Jack in Alaska



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Saving money Reply with quote

FYI........the seals in the cylinder end caps can be replaced with new ones for approx. $28 from a good hydraulic shop. The new end caps from SeaStar are approx. $125.
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not an informational comment, because I don't have any, but just to say I'm reading with interest. My boat has cable steering, which so far seems to work fine, but.... a couple of hours running is a bit of a workout, which seems to "settle" into my neck muscles. So I have hydraulic steering on my list of potential future upgrades. It's more complicated than just that though (of course, it's a boat! Cry) because my autopilot is not one that would work with hydraulic, so that would also have to be replaced. Hence I'm reading and considering future moves.

At any rate, if Freedom's steering was "normal," I was thinking I would rather have the cable, which at least feels like "direct drive." But reading further, it sounds like the hydraulic is normally tighter, and would likely be an improvement I would enjoy. Good discussion, thanks Thumbs Up

Sunbeam
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AK Angler



Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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City/Region: South Central
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Rod Holder
Photos: Rod Holder
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunbeam wrote:
.... a couple of hours running is a bit of a workout, which seems to "settle" into my neck muscles. ...

Sunbeam


That's why I'll never own a cable steered boat again. I've found that hydraulic steering is much easier on the captain - especially during long runs.
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redbaronace



Joined: 29 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nordicstallion wrote:
I switched from cable to hydraulic. The cable was more responsive in that it took 3 1/2 turns stop to stop but was a lot harder to turn & gave quite a workout. I put a suicide knob on my wheel that makes turning much easier & I can turn with one hand. I'd never go back. Vern


I too installed a suicide knob / necker knob, on our boat and it is a great way to get the steering wheel turned in a hurry. I have found it to be very helpful for manuvering in tight quarters and you can turn the wheel with your left hand quickly while maintaining throttle control with the right hand.

Highly recommend it as an inexpensive $20 upgrade.
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colobear



Joined: 23 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've put 1100 hours on our Baystar steering. Had to replace end seals on the piston at the engines at about 800 hours. The steering is tight, just a slight movement to get movement on the engines. No problems with broken or rusted cables, no need to take them out every year or two to re-lube; we're happy with the hydraulics. By the way, if you look at the baystar owners manual it will note that several brands of aviation brake fluid are approved substitutes for the very pricy Baystar fluid, cuts costs by about 50-75%.
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colobear



Joined: 23 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've put 1100 hours on our Baystar steering. Had to replace end seals on the piston at the engines at about 800 hours. The steering is tight, just a slight movement to get movement on the engines. No problems with broken or rusted cables, no need to take them out every year or two to re-lube; we're happy with the hydraulics. By the way, if you look at the baystar owners manual it will note that several brands of aviation brake fluid are approved substitutes for the very pricy Baystar fluid, cuts fluid costs by about 50-75% when you have to do maintenance.
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