4200 or 5200 ?

[Tom on Icarus]

Hi Brats,

I was fooling around with some Starboard and made a nice little fishing rod holder that is to be mounted on cabin ceiling.
I don't really want to drill any holes in the roof and was wondering if it would hold the weight of up 4 or 5 rods and reels if I just used 4200 or 5200.
If I am not mistaken, they both have the same glueing strength but 52oo cures harder so it is more permanent. Is that right? If so, I would probably use 4200 incase I change my mind about having it up there.
Your expertise and advise in these matters much appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom

[T.R. Bauer]

5200 makes permanent bonds and 4200 does not. Both are good, but I don't know if either of them will hold, without any hardware, your fishing pole holders on the ceiling of your boat. There are a lot of variables with that.

[Sunbeam]

I can't answer specifically, except to say that it's difficult to get things to stick to Starboard, which is a polyethylene. That said, looking at 3M's specs, it looks like 5200 stands a better chance than 4200. It might be a bit tough to get the 5200 off the overhead if/when you want to (as you can see, they both adhere well to gelcoat).

A few specs from 3M on the two, which are both polyurethanes, in similar tests:

4200:
Shore A hardness, cured = 40
Tensile and elongation = 300psi and 750%
Overlap shear strength in psi, on various materials:
Polyethylene = 0
Polypropylene = 64
Gelcoat = 244
Teak (primed) = 129

5200:
Shore A hardness, cured = 68
Tensile and elongation = 705psi and 762%
Overlap shear strength
Polyethylene = 48
Polypropylene = 54
Gelcoat = 519
Teak = 502

I might consider holding the blocks (or rod holders) up with Weld Mount Studs, or possibly blocks of wood adhered to the overhead. Industrial strength hook and loop is another possibility (the type that is like plastic "hook and hook").

[Tom on Icarus]

Thank you for the replies.
I did not know that it would not adhere well to starboard. Good thing I asked the question instead of charging ahead.
Back to the drawing board, I guess, using wood.

Cheers,
Tom

[thataway]

Tom,
I would go with wood, or screw the starboard rod holders into the top of the cabin. If you are going into a cored area of the cab in top then short screws into the inner layer of glass works fine. I have screwed several Starboard rod holders to the top of various C Dorys. There was a vertical piece which held the rods. That was screwed into a horizontal piece which then was screwed into the under side of the cabin fiberglass (where it was cored).

The various boats have made the center cored in some boats and the center cored in others.

If 5200 adheres, it adheres well. But it is not made primarly as an adhesive--more as a sealant. There are times, that the 5200 may not adhere well--such as when there has been a silicone on the surface or if there are some other products on the surface. For adhering items to the inside of the boat, I have often used epoxy--and a dab of hot glue to keep the piece in place as the epoxy kicks off.

Good luck with the project.

[UncleRichie]

I made a fishing rod holder for inside the cabin used oak and 5200 hundred been there about 6 -7 years very solid used for a hand hold more then once. U can see it in the C-Critter pictures.
Richard

[thataway]

Nice job--here is the photo of C-Critter's rod holder

[BrentB]

Would Scotch Weld work?

[thataway]

Regular Scotch weld is a two part epoxy--rapid cure. Should work fine for wood and PVC lumber--not for Starboard. There are Starboard adhesives: From the King Starboard site:

King StarBoard®, King StarBoard® ST, King ColorCore®, King ColorBoard® and King CuttingBoard® can not be glued using standard adhesives. Products like 3M’s 5200 work well as a water sealing caulk but will not adhere King StarBoard® to itself or other materials in a permanent bond. It is preferable to mechanically fasten or weld King StarBoard®, but when an adhesive is necessary you can use a product called Lord 7542-AB or 3M’s Scotch-Weld DP-8005. We do not represent these products, or make any claims about their abilities or accept liability for them.
Lord 7542-AB can be purchased by Wensco online (www.wensco.com) or offline; Phone: 800-253-1569 or 616-785-3333

The Scotch-Weld DP-8005 is an acrylic two part adhesive--I have not used it. If you were to clean the fiberglass sub service and able to clamp it tightly for 6 hours it should work. [i[/i]

[rogerbum]

If you really don't want to drill any holes in the roof and are set on using starboard as the material, this might be a good example of when to use weldmount studs. In brief, they make stainless steel threaded studs that can be glued onto fiberglass with their 2-part methacrylate glue. I used these to affix a piece of starboard to my bulk head. If you go this route, oversize the holes in the starboard or cut slots to allow the starboard to expand and contract a little with temperature changes.

[Tom on Icarus]

Once again thanks to everyone for all the help and advise. I'll go buy some nice wood today.

Cheers, Tom

[ddenver]

OK, I was following along related to the Starboard adhesive question.

Not being handy in the least (I feel proud of myself after changing out an incandescent light bulb) I usually have no clue what I am doing.

Anyway, I have cut a small piece off a mangled "starboard like" cutting board and bolted it to a small foldable cup holder I had bought for the boat - planning to adhere the cutting board backing to the bulkhead instead of having to drill holes in the bulkhead. I had hoped to adhere the cutting board backing (mounted on the cup holder) directly to the fiberglass bulkhead perhaps using 3200 or some other glue like substance. Now seeing this thread and then looking at both the 3M Scotch Weld and the Wensco Lord 7542 product they both cost way more then the silly cup holder does making that a foolish way to go.

Is there a simple less expensive way to adhere the cup holder w/ the cutting board backing to the bulkhead? Obviously, this is for a very light plastic cup holder so it does not have to be industrial strength and it will be in the cabin so will not have to withstand waves or wind.

Thanks,
Dan

[Aurelia]

Dan, I have mounted many cupholder type items using this product:

http://www.uline.com/BL_6418/3M-Dual-Lock

They also call it superlock at Radio shack and it comes in clear and black. I found some recently at Fred Meyer as well. It is velcro like in concept but both sides are the same stiff interlocking plastic teeth and it literally clicks together forming a much stronger and more rigid hold than any velcro product while retaining just enough give to be durable too.

The adhesive is good but you will get the best results with a relatively smooth mounting surface.

I would use it for your purpose but don't be shy with it and use as much as you can fit on the backing.

Greg

[Sunbeam]

I don't know if the adhesive on the Velcro-like product will stick to the cutting board or not, but just for information, from what I can tell most (some/many?) of the plastic cutting boards are HDPE (high-density polyethylene). Starboard™ also appears to be made of HDPE, but is UV-resistant (and maybe there is other secret sauce in it?).

At any rate, I would guess that what would stick or not stick to Starboard™, would also stick or not stick to the typical plastic cutting board material.

[ddenver]

Thanks for the feedback Greg and Sunbeam. I greatly appreciate your taking the time to respond.

Greg..... it was great seeing you Cindy, and Aven at La Conner. Glad you guys continue to join us even though you are currently boatless.

Sunbeam.... heard a bit on your progress on your boat from Barry and Patti at La Conner. Hopefully, you will be able to complete your upgrades and join us on the water in time for the Sydney Gathering in early September.

Thanks again to both of you.

Take care,
Dan, Tanya, and Hannah on C-Renity