Water in V-berth hatches

[Mike_J]

I have noticed that I seem to be getting some water accumulation in the storage compartment of my 2011 CD22. Tonight I mopped up about a litre (quart) of water from the front hatch as well as a few 100 mL from either side. I thought that this might be something to do with condensation, but this seems like too much water. Any suggestions on places to look for the leak(s).
The water did not seem salty to taste...

[colobear]

Mike, if you are referring to the front hatch over the vee berth, check to make sure the two lever latches that hold the hatch closed are tight. I noticed a leak from that hatch, then that the latches were loose. a screwdriver fixed the problem.

[A Fishin C]

anchor locker bulkhead?

[Mike_J]

I think I will get up top with a hose and see if I can get water in. I don't think it is the hatch over the vee berth, as I would expect to see drops on the cushions etc. It is just that water seems to gather in the storage locker under the vee-berth.

[Sea Wolf]

Mike-

Are you aware of the problem we've had on some of the boats where the keel strip was put in with long screws that allowed leakage into the compartment under the v-berth?

Did your 2011 CD-22 have hatches in the compartment installed by the manufacturer, or did you do it yourself?

Were you aware of any minor leakage in this area before this larger problem?

Joe.

[Mike_J]

Thanks Joe, I was not aware of that and will take a closer look. There is an access hatch into the chain locker that was installed by the manufacturer, plus flat "hatches" that cover the storage under the vee-berth. The water has been accumulating in the bilges under the vee berth.
I had noticed this problem before, but thought it was condensation...

[localboy]

Was thinking the same thing; the brass keel guard. If you don't see water running down the walls which would indicate a leak under the rub rail, the only point of water entry would be the anchor locker or the keel guard. I pulled ours, filled the holes w/ thickened epoxy and put a plastic glue on Keel Guard over it after Karl had his experience.

[rogerbum]

If you're moored in salt water and/or operating only in salt water and the water you find doesn't taste salty, it's mostly likely condensation or rain water entering from someplace. The rub rail attachment points are another common source of water entry. The rub rails are attached with rivets and often those are not sealed so well. Water from that will run down the sides and may run under the cushions (especially if you have hypervent). With hypervent under the cushions, you won't even see a trail left behind.

[Sunbeam]

I haven't seen how a 2011 is made, but on a 2009 I looked at, the v-berth had factory cut berth-top hatches (center forward and then P & S aft of that). Beneath this, there appeared to be (photos) small bulkheads glassed in place that would separate the forward compartment from the P & S ones aft of it. What I don't know is whether there were limber holes connecting the compartments. If yours has these bulkheads and they aren't connected, then you might have a diagnostic clue (if they are connected you might be able to temporarily block limber holes for detective work).

Presuming the V-berth flat is tabbed to the hull like in my boat, then it would seem the water has to original from either beneath the berth, or from the anchor locker (unless boat is very down at the bow I don't see how it would come from aft).

In previous years (as mentioned) there were problems with leaks from the anchor locker and from the stem strip (if you have a brass one attached with fasteners).

The stem strip fastener holes are fairly obvious in how they could let water in. On the anchor locker the bottom is tabbed in to the hull and the drain tunnel may pass through the tabbing (it is not lined with anything). If there is a gap in the tabbing (not uncommon), then that can let water get beneath the locker bottom and it can run under the v-berth (subject to variations in construction). Also possibly the tabbing could leak (say if there were a gap in the strip that runs along the after end of the anchor locker bottom piece).

Since water can run along in a boat so that it comes in one place and shows up in a different place, I've used various ways to try to track it down (food coloring, chalk, etc.) Also... salt or fresh? And... underway only (can be caused by boat flexing in a seaway whereas with the hose nothing happens). My guess would be anchor locker or stem strip. Hard to see how the overhead Bomar hatch would let water underneath the berth but not show up on the cushions above. The hull/deck joint is also above the berth flat.


Sunbeam

[Mike_J]

Thanks for the suggestions. will continue to investigate.

[thataway]

Unlikely to be condensation in this area. Agree with the anchor locker or brass stip. Again, the hull to deck joint rivets are on top of the V Berth and if the tabbing is good water will not get under into the area under the V Berth. The rivets should be covered with an epoxy type putty or other material. You would see water coming down the sides from rivets.

[Mike_J]

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions! I did some testing this afternoon, beginning with pouring some water into the anchor locker which very quickly found its way to the vee-berth bilge!
So now the problem is determined I need to figure out a solution - its a fairly long drive from here to where I bought the boat (assuming that is a warranty issue). I suspect it will be easier to fix it myself with some epoxy or some other sealant. I have a suspicion that an area of inadequately gooped fiberglass is to blame.
I think that water will only get in there
a) after anchoring, but probably not very much
b) after a heavy rain - will see if we get any in the next few days...
c) after hosing down the front deck - I know now to check
d) after heavy seas with water coming over the bow! Again I know to check until it gets fixed.

Thanks again C-Brats!

[thataway]

Yep, clean out--I would probably take a dremel tool flexible shaft with one of the "flap" type sanders and work it down into the bottom of the anchor locker to clean up any paint/goop or debris. Then work thickened epoxy into this area--problem resolved.

Congratulations on a quick find of the problem! I would DIY--does not take long to do that, and will cost less than the gas to drive to the dealer.

[ghone]

Glad you found it fast Mike. On my 2011, I checked the locker prior to loading the rode as in earlier boats was a fairly common place ( as was the drain itself) for water to make it's way aft. Mine had a nice tight drain seal and the bulkhead looked great aside from a small bumpy area on the bottom to bulkhead join. I cleaned it and added a bead of sealant along the bottom and up the side 6 ", As a precaution. I have not had any water come in the boat anywhere. See you in FH

[Sunbeam]

Good sleuthing! Just in case this may help you (and if it does apply to your boat, which I would guess it would).

When two "walls" of fiberglass or fiberglass/wood are joined together, it is often done by "tabbing." To tab (say a right angle joint), you grind/sand back a few inches on each "wall," clean it up, and then you wet out a strip of fiberglass mat or cloth (picture a strip of sheetrock tape) and then lay it in place to cover the joint. Fiberglass doesn't like to lay down over sharp bends, so often one would lay in a fillet of thickened epoxy or some other material (foam, other resin) to smooth the gap. Picture laying in a caulk bead on an inside corner before tabbing and you get the idea (or you would round over an outside corner). Working in an area like an anchor locker is cramped, and it's not always easy to be quite as perfect as you would be out in the open.

So, the "sides" of the anchor locker are the hull, the bottom is (I believe) a fiberglass or gelcoat covered piece of plywood (or if not, something with a similar function), and the aft "wall" (mini bulkhead dividing locker from v-berth) is molded fiberglass. My guess is that the tabbing that bonds the locker bottom in would be the most likely culprit. The two places I would check are where the bottom joins the bulkhead that divides the locker from the v-berth, and where the drain goes through to the outside. A tiny flaw in the tabbing in either place would be able to let water through. The only reason the drain hole is included in the equation is that it likely passes through the tabbing that holds the locker bottom to the hull side in that area. Thus if there is a little gap in the tabbing there (picture it was never laminated perfectly, which is common), then you drill through the tabbing, through the gap, and through the hull for the drain hole. Now water can pass into the gap as it drains, and thus get below the locker bottom.

Mine looked like there was not a water path, but I did investigate and work in this area because the drain hole on mine was too high. I cut a new, lower hole, made sure there was no tabbing gap (lined hole with thickened epoxy anyway), and I also laid in a fillet and a new tab on that joint between the locker bottom and the dividing bulkhead. Now I know there can be no gap, and as a side bonus it is smooth and more easily cleanable.

I believe I wrote this up with photos in two places:

1) Thread I started called "Sunbeam ~ 22 Cruiser"

2) An older thread on the anchor locker

Also there are photos in my album, some annotated. Our boats are probably not identical, but I would guess the construction in that area has not changed hugely.

Initially, I considered putting in a tube or something the drain (such as Tyboo's fuel vent solution), because I had read there was a liner there. But after investigating it, I could see the "liner" (at least on my boat) was just a bit of tabbing, so I felt a good fiberglass/epoxy job would be preferable in my case. But as often is the true, there is more than one way to do the job and have it work.

Sunbeam