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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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 Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:51 am Post subject: Raising Wallas stove. |
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The photo below shows the current location of the Wallas single burner stove/heater in my 22 Angler. I am considering putting a cabinet to be used as a built in tackle box with two or three drawers where the stove is located currently and placing the stove in the top of the cabinet. This would raise the stove to a point an inch or two below the level of the window.
After reviewing the installation directions from Wallas and looking at the actual installation it seems as if it would be a straightforward operation. To those of you who have installed or moved a Wallas stove, do you see any issues with my thoughts on moving it?
The current location has the stove mounted to the fiberglass (approx 1/4" thick, non-cored) box that the helm seat is mounted on. The install instructions make no mention of the mounting surface materials in regard to combustibility so I'm thinking that plywood would be an acceptable mounting surface. While running the stove in heater mode and using the old fashioned index finger heat sensor I can't seem to feel any high amount of heat in the current fiberglass mounting areas adjacent to the heater. Is the counter top in the Cruiser model plywood?
Does that sound like a reasonable plan or have I missed some major issue?
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Mike Garrett
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Raising Wallas stove. |
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| mgarr682 wrote: |
The current location has the stove mounted to the fiberglass (approx 1/4" thick, non-cored) box that the helm seat is mounted on. The install instructions make no mention of the mounting surface materials in regard to combustibility so I'm thinking that plywood would be an acceptable mounting surface. |
Just as a data point: Pre-around-2006, the 22 Cruisers (and maybe others) had an interior made of 3/4" plywood. This includes the galley counter where the Wallas is mounted. I removed the Wallas from my boat (to send it to Scan for an inspection/tune-up), and there was no special shielding of the plywood, nor was there "extra" clearance between the stove and the wood. In fact, the cut out was tight enough that I had to remove a screw from one side of the stove to get it to fit through the cutout during removal. There is a small strip of metal angle along the outboard (rear of stove) edge of the counter, although I didn't check to see what it was there for (have seen it on other Wallas installs as well). It doesn't even cover the full depth (thickness) of the wood though as it's just on the top edge. My guess would be it's not for heat shielding. My stove is the two-burner 95 diesel/heat/cook model.
Sunbeam  |
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Grumpy
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 1606
City/Region: Whidbey Is
State or Province: WA
Vessel Name: Kingfisher II
Photos: Kingfisher
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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You might need to check if the Wallas can actually draw fuel from the tank up to the new height. It's been a while since I had one of these so I don't know what the max figure is.
I do know that if you ever get air in the supply line it might take you a certain number of "tries" to get it started again which can be a tad frustating if you dont know about it.
M
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2006 CD-22 Kingfisher Sold Jan 08.
1987 Arima SeaChaser 17, Sea Star. Sold May 2010
2008 RF246 Kingfisher II Sold Apr 2013 |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I would guess the new height wouldn't be any higher than the galley counter in a 22 Cruiser; of course the fuel bottle height can also be adjusted. I remember they specified a minimum drop to the fuel tank, but don't remember what they said about maximum (because on my 22 installation it's more about assuring the minimum than a concern about a maximum).
I don't know if you have them or not, but this page has installation instructions and diagrams for all the various Wallas models (one of the languages is English).
http://www.wallas.fi/default.asp?id=boat-heater-usage
Sunbeam |
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Raising Wallas stove. |
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| Sunbeam wrote: | Just as a data point: Pre-around-2006, the 22 Cruisers (and maybe others) had an interior made of 3/4" plywood. This includes the galley counter where the Wallas is mounted.
Sunbeam |
Thanks, that's what I was thinking regarding the counter top. Plywood seems a popular material for boat interiors so I was thinking Wallas would have said something in their install material if there was a problem with it. |
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Grumpy wrote: | You might need to check if the Wallas can actually draw fuel from the tank up to the new height. It's been a while since I had one of these so I don't know what the max figure is.
I do know that if you ever get air in the supply line it might take you a certain number of "tries" to get it started again which can be a tad frustating if you dont know about it.
M |
A good point. The installation documentation says the Wallas is calibrated for a "delivery height" of 0.5m to 1m. I think what I have in mind is within that range but I'll measure to be certain. |
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, those install instructions are what I've been looking at, although I guess I should compare them to the printed material that came with it to be sure there have been no changes.
Now, if I can find a suitable coffee percolator to use on the Wallas each morning I really will be in business. Instant just doesn't cut it. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mgarr682 wrote: | | The installation documentation says the Wallas is calibrated for a "delivery height" of 0.5m to 1m. I think what I have in mind is within that range but I'll measure to be certain. |
And too (which I'm sure you have probably thought of), the fuel bottle could always be raised, if that facilitated where you wanted the stove. |
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NORO LIM
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 875
City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: NORO LIM (sold 12/12/14)
Photos: NORO LIM
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Exhaust port location? Don't have any idea exactly where the current vent is, or if you can vent the exhaust all the way down at the current spot. Maybe it's OK where it is, or maybe it could be moved up, but still below the gunnel. A higher location might introduce the potential for serious ankle level heat when working your way to the fore deck. Also don't know if you could vent the exhaust through the cabin roof. Just thoughts.
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Bill, Formerly on NORO LIM
2001 CD 16, 2001-2006
2006 CC 23, 2006-2014 |
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Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7313
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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There's a good factory Wallas rep that's a member here, maybe he'll chime in, I'm sure he will have an answer for you.
Can't remember his name right now MacMac or something like that.
Anyone help?
Charlie
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CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
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bridma
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 1155
City/Region: Comox
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Nomad
Photos: Nomad
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject: Raising Wallas stove |
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My mate Stuart MacKenzie is a Wallas rep. He is not a C-Brat but he supported us at the Comox Gathering last year. You can reach Stuart at stuart@comoxmaw.ca
Martin. |
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| NORO LIM wrote: | | Exhaust port location? Don't have any idea exactly where the current vent is, or if you can vent the exhaust all the way down at the current spot. Maybe it's OK where it is, or maybe it could be moved up, but still below the gunnel. A higher location might introduce the potential for serious ankle level heat when working your way to the fore deck. Also don't know if you could vent the exhaust through the cabin roof. Just thoughts. |
My exhaust port seems to be located in about the same place I've seen it located in photos of other boats. Here is a photo of my boat from the dealer just before delivery:
Right now the exhaust hose runs from the stove toward the hull then loops up under the side deck and back down to the exhaust port in order to keep water from entering the stove via the exhaust hose. I think raising the stove to the height I'm looking at would give me another inch or two of vertical clearance from the exhaust port than I'm getting now from just the loop. I might need a slightly longer exhaust hose but I think it will work.
On a side note, I've seen mention of a wind deflector that attaches to the exhaust port that helps the stove vent in windy conditions.
Link: http://www.scanmarineusa.com/accessories_5566-wind-deflector.html
Mine does not have that but since I've become quite fond of my little furnace on the cold and wet days I've spent working on the boat I'm wondering if it would be a worth while addition. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| mgarr682 wrote: | | My exhaust port seems to be located in about the same place I've seen it located in photos of other boats.[/img] |
That looks similar to mine, which is a 22 Cruiser and so already has the stove at around the height I would imagine you're thinking of moving yours to.
Here is a photo of the inside, showing the exhaust hose and through-hull location (ignore bilge-pump hose; it's being re-installed with new materials and a proper loop!)
I don't know where your tank is located, but mine was on the forward galley "wall." I've also seen it mounted in the same basic location but on the aft "wall." If you like to use your stove a lot, and/or if it makes sense for your stowage configuration, there is another tank sold by Wallas/Scan that has twice the capacity of the vertical jug and sits lower and more horizontal.
| mgarr682 wrote: | | On a side note, I've seen mention of a wind deflector that attaches to the exhaust port that helps the stove vent in windy conditions. |
I took a look at one of those when I was at Scan this summer. Right now I'm not sure whether or not I will reinstall my Wallas, but if I do I'll likely add the wind deflector. I don't like the thought of wind causing an exhaust issue. It's a pretty simple device that one could probably make, but since I don't have time to make everything in life, I'd just buy one  It attaches via existing fasteners.
Sam on Retriever (forum name "Dauntless20") had some exhaust issues due to wind and got one of the deflectors. He took his 22 to Alaska and back this summer and I don't remember him mentioning further wind/exhaust trouble. Even if I'm remembering incorrectly on that, I'm pretty sure he never mentioned anything like "I'll be removing this," or "Sorry I installed it." You could probably read more by searching his posts and then reading his blog (which is inspiring reading anyway and with great photos to-boot!).
Edited to add: Just sitting around waiting for rain to go away, so I looked up his blog for a link. Here is the post where he first had the issue; in a future post I believe he posted a photo of the deflector in place. I can't imagine anyone starting to read his blog and not being sucked in to reading more anyway - especially a C-Brat in February!
http://www.samlandsman.blogspot.com/2011/12/whered-heat-go.html
Sunbeam |
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mgarr682
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 182
City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Glenda Jean
Photos: Glenda Jean
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunbeam wrote: | | That looks similar to mine, which is a 22 Cruiser and so already has the stove at around the height I would imagine you're thinking of moving yours to. |
I'm not sure how high the counter top is in the Cruiser but what I have in mind would probably be close.
| Sunbeam wrote: | | Here is a photo of the inside, showing the exhaust hose and through-hull location (ignore bilge-pump hose; it's being re-installed with new materials and a proper loop!). |
That is certainly a more open area to work in than the Angler. Does your exhaust hose have a heat shield? If so it makes for a much neater installation than mine which has a fabric heat shield. Is there a special sealant needed for the exhaust through hull due to the heat issue? I don't remember seeing anything about that in the mounting instructions.
| Sunbeam wrote: | | I don't know where your tank is located, but mine was on the forward galley "wall." I've also seen it mounted in the same basic location but on the aft "wall." If you like to use your stove a lot, and/or if it makes sense for your stowage configuration, there is another tank sold by Wallas/Scan that has twice the capacity of the vertical jug and sits lower and more horizontal. |
I think the tall tank would be a very tight fit in the lower area of that compartment on the Anger vs the taller and larger area in the Cruiser. My set up has the low tank mounted at the aft inboard area of the compartment. Looking at it I estimate it as about 2.5 gallon capacity.
| Sunbeam wrote: | | Right now I'm not sure whether or not I will reinstall my Wallas, but if I do I'll likely add the wind deflector. |
I'm thinking I'll add the wind deflector to mine. Anything that will keep it chugging along. As I've said, I've decided I like a "heated" boat and I haven't even put it in the water yet!
| Sunbeam wrote: | | Sam on Retriever (forum name "Dauntless20).... |
Yes, that was the first time I saw mention of the wind deflector. I followed his trip this past summer online while I was still deciding between the C-Dory and the Ranger Tug. He writes a great blog and posts some excellent photos. I've been checking back now and then to see if he's taken any more trips but haven't seen any updates. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mgarr682 wrote: |
I'm not sure how high the counter top is in the Cruiser but what I have in mind would probably be close. |
I just ran out and measured. It's 34" off the sole (hull of boat) at the front (inboard side) of the counter (not counting the fiddle). The inboard side of the galley is a few inches outboard of the door stile. So just a bit shorter than a standard kitchen counter.
| Sunbeam wrote: | | Does your exhaust hose have a heat shield? |
No, mine didn't come with a heat shield. It also doesn't run too close to anything until just before the through hull. However, I wouldn't say that for sure it was installed perfectly, and they do have that fiberglass "sock" material at Scan Marine (I was there discussing a 1300 heater installation with them and we took a look at it). I would say that, well, there is no evidence of excess heat on the hull there, but then when I sent my stove in to Scan for inspection/tune-up they said it looked like it had never been used (and the boat had very little use at all anyway); so it's likely it was never fired up.
| mgarr682 wrote: | | Is there a special sealant needed for the exhaust through hull due to the heat issue? I don't remember seeing anything about that in the mounting instructions. |
I want to say they said RTV sealant, but I don't remember for sure (and too, I might have blanked it out if they recommended silicone  )
| mgarr682 wrote: |
My set up has the low tank mounted at the aft inboard area of the compartment. Looking at it I estimate it as about 2.5 gallon capacity. |
Oh nice, that's the large tank you already have.
Sunbeam |
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