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Marinaut Flotation and Double Bottom
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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City/Region: Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starcrafttom wrote:
as for storage.. your wife has not meet my wife yet because if she did Susan would convince her that she needs to bring a bunch more stuff. And in all honesty if you fish like me you will need even more room. Saying a boat has enough storage is like saying "everyone likes blue"


You got me on that one. We have enough space for the two of us to live comfortably when primarily using transient berths. We could add more space by cutting into the inner hull, and it can be done safely, but for our needs, we have all the space we need. We look at the Marianut as a camper for the water. We enjoy roughing it occasionally. Frankly, if we wanted a boat to live on, it would not be a Marinaut. We would probably need at least fifty feet of well designed space.

Rich

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Marinaut 215 - "Betty Ann" Sept-2011
CD 16 Cruiser "C-Nile" Sold 06/2011
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 638
City/Region: Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starcrafttom wrote:

The one thing that stands out the day we ( two other guys with me) pulled those people from the water is how hard they were to spot even with them holding on to the boat. I have not repainted the bottom of the 27 since I got it but if I ever do it will be the brightest yellow and pink you have every seen. it will give some of you older guy 1970 disco flashback. I mean that sucker is going glow in the day light. Black hulls are for the lost at sea.


Now you tell us! We picked dark blue for our lower hull. If I ever flip the boat, though, should I take off my shirt? One pink-colored fat man should provide good contrast in front of a dark blue hull.

Rich


Last edited by C-Nile on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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A Fishin C
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Rich,
I didn't realize it was a marinaut forum Embarassed

I do like the marinaut as well as the foam filled hull of the arima and skagit orca.

I decided to do my v-berth foam removal because I would like a 25 for space but
a) can't afford one
b) enjoy single handing my 22 (its easy)

last time I went for over night with my 2 little ones, my cockpit was full of totes and coolers. I would like to cruise with a clear cockpit as it is small enough already.
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunkydory wrote:
Rich,

I haven't been on another CD 22 without the foam in choppy conditions so really can't answer if it made much of a difference or not other than what the original buyer of mine...told me. He said it reduced the noise a lot & if true the ones without the foam must really make some noise because ours going into a chop at speed even trimmed down can definitely be heard.


In thinking about this, I wonder if most of the noise isn't caused by a sort of "drum" effect (sorry, I don't know all the right terms for accoustic things - maybe it's resonation?), and whether one couldn't have both stowage (or at least accessible compartments) and sound attenuation by making compartments and then installing some pieces of specific sound-deadening product. I'm thinking of how you can place just a section of something like Hushmat in a car door, for example, and it quiets it significantly. In that case you don't need to fill the door, but just place the product strategically.

I'm out of my area of expertise, so I'm just wondering aloud here. It just seems like with a more strategically designed set-up, one could have better sound attenuation and more stowage (or at least more access for cleaning or in case of need).

Sunbeam
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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City/Region: Connecticut
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C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Fishin C wrote:
oh didn't realize it was a marinaut forum Embarassed

I decided to do my v-berth foam removal because I would like a 25 for space but
a) can't afford one
b) enjoy single handing my 22 (its easy)

last time I went for over night with my 2 little ones, my cockpit was full of totes and coolers. I would like to cruise with a clear cockpit as it is small enough already.


Wow, four people on a CD 22! That's pushing it for multi-night stays on our boat, too. But if you had a 25 foot boat, you would not be getting excellent mileage, either. I personally like smaller boats. Large boats tend to make one feel detached from the water, and in some situations, people can become complacent. Small boats are more intimate with the environment and gives one a sense of vulnerability that garners respect. If someone gave me $400,000 for a new boat, I would still not want a larger boat. The other issue is that so often in life, people buy large boats to accomodate their family, who eventually loses enthusiasm for boating, leaving only the person who enjoys the boating to go off on his or her own with too much boat for one person to hande. That's why it is often, but not always, best to choose a boat for your needs.

Rich
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bridma



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Marinaut Flotation and Double Bottom. Reply with quote

Hi Rich,

You sure got that right. One of my previous boats was a 33' sail boat that had 7 berths, (I have 5 daughters). Of course the kids interest soon waned when they realised they could not bring 5 friends? (anyone else been there, done that?). So we sold it and lost a ton of $$$. When the kids left home (you empty nesters know how great that is), we wanted simple for two.
The C-Dory is #1.

Martin.
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starcrafttom



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking of a yellow back ground with red letters. " if you can read this send help"
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texasair



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We did not notice any difference in the hull noise after we removed the foam and installed hatches in the V berth on our 22.
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Jake



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would guess a fairly large component of the noise is a resonance in the v berth area. Probably would require extensive sound absorbing material on walls and ceiling of v berth to materially reduce the noise.
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Tim & Dave Kinghorn



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Will It Sink? Reply with quote

El and Bill, under "Inside Passage North (Alaska)" from "Cruising Alaska" describe how they and two other boatas were returning from fishing at dusk when one of them hit something (probably a piece of ice) and within minutes filled with water and sank. Bill doesn't give the make of the boat, but describes how they took of the crew of the other boat within minutes of their call and watched as it filled with water and sank!

You don't last long in cold water.

Tim and Dave Kinghorn

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starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We removed the foam of our 22. It did not add to the noise at all. complete none issue.

c-nile. about space again. You have to understand that the older 22 have a lot more storage then the new ones and alot more I think then your Marinaut. The amount of space that we gained by removing the foam allowed us to not only carry more stuff, but allowed us to carry what we had in a better fashion. To the point, everything that was On the berth got moved to Under the berth. This allowed us to keep the gear off the dinette at night and off the berth in the day. That left these areas more open to use all the time. So maybe its not about how much you can carry as it is how you carry it. For me and susan removing the foam was the second most useful thing we did to the boat.
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starcrafttom wrote:
We removed the foam of our 22. It did not add to the noise at all. complete none issue.

c-nile. about space again. You have to understand that the older 22 have a lot more storage then the new ones and alot more I think then your Marinaut. The amount of space that we gained by removing the foam allowed us to not only carry more stuff, but allowed us to carry what we had in a better fashion. To the point, everything that was On the berth got moved to Under the berth. This allowed us to keep the gear off the dinette at night and off the berth in the day. That left these areas more open to use all the time. So maybe its not about how much you can carry as it is how you carry it. For me and susan removing the foam was the second most useful thing we did to the boat.


Actually, when I was comparing a Marinaut to a CD 22, I was taking into account the entire boat. I realize that the cabins are very similar. What makes a huge difference on the Marinaut is storage under the splashwell as a consequence of Dave Thompson's idea to utilize saddle tanks. Instead of having to store a small portable toilet under the berth, we freed up that entire space for storage by utilizing an even larger portable toilet (Thetford Curve) and storing it under the splashwell. Our cooler fits on the other side, and we still have space left such that the cockpit remains uncluttered. We could go further on our Marinaut by cutting into the flotation chambers under the berth so long as robust, watertight doors are installed, but for our simple needs, we have adequate space.

In our CD 16 cruiser, we used the space under the berth for storage, too. It was quite practical and I imagine that on the CD 22 as well, shifting weight forward aids in better trimming the boat making both boats easier to go onto plane. On the CD 16 Cruiser, it was almost a necessity to shift the weight away from the stern, because she was so stern heavy.

Was the CD 22 Cruiser designed to float if swamped? Does it need flotation? While I don't know the answer to that, if you look about the way the CD 16 was designed, it had a sealed air flotation chamber in the bow, flotation in the gunnels, and end core balsa in the hull. With a combination of all three things, she was designed to float upright and level.

In Connecticut, our waters are warm during most of the boating season. In the PNW your waters are always cold. It can be downright lethal. So speaking in general, I would not remove any USGA approved flotation on any boat put in place by a manufacturer, or cut into any sealed air flotation chamber without taking the necessary precautions. Removing sound deadening foam or insulation is a whole different story (as you stated for the CD 22) so I do understand, and would probably do the same as you to increase storage space so long as I stayed within the weight limits on the capacity plate.

Rich
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Nile wrote:
What makes a huge difference on the Marinaut is storage under the splashwell as a consequence of Dave Thompson's idea to utilize saddle tanks.


I sure hear you on that one. That (cavernous!) space under the splashwell in the Marinaut is super sweet Thumbs Up Really keeps clutter out of the cockpit. I have the fuel tanks out of my 22 right now, and the scary thing is that as I work, I'm getting used to having that space to tuck things into. I'm going to hate to give it up! That said, if I decide to keep the 22 long term, then I might look into having one or two saddle tanks made. I don't think they could be as large as the Marinuat's, but perhaps at least one after tank could be eliminated. That's a design/project for another day (or year! or maybe decade) though.

I think the CD-22 does make up for some of that space by not having the extensive hull liner in the cabin, and thus having deeper cabin lockers in some areas -- but it's not quite the same type of space.

C-Nile wrote:

Was the CD 22 Cruiser designed to float if swamped?


On a gut level, I would guess no, looking at the installation, volume, and type of foam that was placed in the boats. Also, since a 22' boat is not required to float while swamped, I would think that if it were built to do that, the brochures and marketing would be touting it (since it would be an added "safety feature"). I may have missed it, but I have never heard of it in relation to the 22.

For myself, I just presume there is the slight possibility of the boat sinking, and because of that I would consider a dinghy or liferaft for certain situations. I don't think I'd want to give up the space for the required foam (or air) for that rare possibility, but then we are all different in that regard.

Sunbeam
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DaveS



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Marinaut Flotation and Double Bottom Reply with quote

C-Nile wrote:
There was a post on this site many year's ago in which a person said he saw (or knew of) a C-Dory factory test in which the factory purposefully flooded a CD 16 Cruiser, and it floated upright and level. I believe the person said that the result was impressive. That person's report was a major factor in our purchasing a CD 16 Cruiser several year's ago.
Rich


Rich,
I remember making a posting several years ago about this. In the old, old, old C-Dory factory (the one on old 99 in Kent, Wa.). There was a photo on the wall of the display room of a 16' C-Dory flooded to the gunnels with water and still floating upright. (This was in 1999 when we purchased our '99 16' Cruiser).

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C-Nile



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Marinaut Flotation and Double Bottom Reply with quote

DaveS wrote:
C-Nile wrote:
There was a post on this site many year's ago in which a person said he saw (or knew of) a C-Dory factory test in which the factory purposefully flooded a CD 16 Cruiser, and it floated upright and level. I believe the person said that the result was impressive. That person's report was a major factor in our purchasing a CD 16 Cruiser several year's ago.
Rich


Rich,
I remember making a posting several years ago about this. In the old, old, old C-Dory factory (the one on old 99 in Kent, Wa.). There was a photo on the wall of the display room of a 16' C-Dory flooded to the gunnels with water and still floating upright. (This was in 1999 when we purchased our '99 16' Cruiser).


Yes Dave, it was your post that really helped us, and we never regretted our purchase. We enjoyed our CD 16 for four years, and while she was a wonderfully safe boat, she was too small for overnight stays for two people. If it was not for this website and people like you who unselfishly shared useful information, we would never have known about C-Dorys and their cousin, the Marinaut. Thank you,

Rich
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