The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Any cause for concern?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All C-Dorys, All The Time
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tcr_pnw



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 143
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea Star
Photos: Sea Star
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Any cause for concern? Reply with quote

Good evening everyone, finally found a boat I am close to pulling the trigger on. It's a 2008 that has bottom paint. The boat for me is going to be trailered so the bottom paint is a turn off. I like the molded in color under the gelcoat. This paint is a thicker material that is not your normal paint. I'm being told its never coming off and won't need to be painted again. To be completely honest, I don't like it but am willing to look past it.

However, it looks like the boat was moored and the waterline was above the paint at the stern. Take a look. Any cause for concern? This is the only flaw in the boat but is nagging at me, especially since $42k is a lot of dough.

Thanks in advance,

Troy



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 2926
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Any cause for concern? Reply with quote

tcr_pnw wrote:
The boat for me is going to be trailered so the bottom paint is a turn off. I like the molded in color under the gelcoat. This paint is a thicker material that is not your normal paint. I'm being told its never coming off and won't need to be painted again. To be completely honest, I don't like it but am willing to look past it.


I don't know of any bottom paint that never needs to be painted again. Not that I know everything, but I'm reasonably familiar with it. The way bottom paints typically work is that they contain some sort of toxin (used to be tin, now often copper) and that toxin either leaches out (of a harder paint) or more is revealed as the paint sloughs off (ablative paint). But eventually the hard paint will lose its toxic effectiveness (even if the paint is still on the boat) and the ablative will wear thin.

There are some epoxy-copper type coatings that last a very long time, but I don't know of a blue one. The ones I have seen are a copper/epoxy type of thing and copper colored.

Worn out paint (i.e. no toxins) may not be a concern for you if you are trailering, but still, I would want to know exactly what type of paint it is, if at all possible, so that I could read for myself and know just what I was getting. Bottom paint is typically thicker than a regular type of paint (unless it's something like VC-17, but that's a freshwater paint).

tcr_pnw wrote:
However, it looks like the boat was moored and the waterline was above the paint at the stern. Take a look.


I don't actually see any problem because of the waterline being above the paint. What you would see that would be a problem would be growth (slime, barnacles) or blisters (not too likely, but you would be able to see them when the boat was first hauled). It does look a bit unconventional the way they "staggered" the paint around the engine and Mini-jacker, but i suppose that's because they are aluminum and thus aren't a good combination with copper (I've only painted larger boats with non-aluminum engines and etc.)

tcr_pnw wrote:
Any cause for concern? This is the only flaw in the boat but is nagging at me, especially since $42k is a lot of dough.


What I would want to check on a C-Dory that had been moored is the core. There are numerous penetrations into the core in the transom, and some of them have been underwater (trim tabs, transducers, drains, etc.). Plus I I'd want to check the general state of the hull and deck core, especially anywhere there are fittings, through hulls (if you have any), bilge pump baskets (if screwed down), etc. Most everything else is fairly obvious to the eye (except engine health of course).

Sunbeam Hot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 6348
City/Region: Tropical Tip of Texas
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm OK with bottom paint. In fact, we have put it on all our boats. While there are different types of bottom paint, the only issue I see with what is on there is the streaking... it makes me wonder if some sort of hull cleaner was used that was allowed to run down on the bottom paint? Again, not a deal breaker, a bit of the same bottom paint as touch up would go a long ways towards making it look... prettier.

Bottom paint is generally not smooth like the gel-coat. On a sailboat we used to race, we did have the bottom paint sprayed on in multiple layers and it was smooth as a baby's bottom. That really isn't necessary on a C-Dory. If it makes you feel any better, when I see bottom paint on a boat, I tend to think, "Now, there's a boat that gets to see some water time."

Just an opinion from viewing the photo, but have a boat yard look at it if you have any concerns.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

_________________
Jim & Joan
CD-25 "Wild Blue" (sold August 2014)
http://captnjim.blogspot.com/

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tcr_pnw



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 143
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea Star
Photos: Sea Star
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Any cause for concern? Reply with quote

First off, thanks for the reply!
Sunbeam wrote:
Worn out paint (i.e. no toxins) may not be a concern for you if you are trailering, but still, I would want to know exactly what type of paint it is, if at all possible, so that I could read for myself and know just what I was getting. Bottom paint is typically thicker than a regular type of paint (unless it's something like VC-17, but that's a freshwater paint).

It's a dealer boat on consignment. 2008 with '09 engines (little over 100 hours of use). The rest of the boat is, cosmetically at least, cherry. The dealer going call the owner for details on the coating. One thing to note is it is thick, think fingernail thick.
Sunbeam wrote:
It does look a bit unconventional the way they "staggered" the paint around the engine and Mini-jacker

Same here! If I ever chose to short term moor during the summer, I'd want to get it all covered now!

Sunbeam wrote:
What I would want to check on a C-Dory that had been moored is the core. There are numerous penetrations into the core in the transom, and some of them have been underwater (trim tabs, transducers, drains, etc.). Plus I I'd want to check the general state of the hull and deck core, especially anywhere there are fittings, through hulls (if you have any), bilge pump baskets (if screwed down), etc. Most everything else is fairly obvious to the eye (except engine health of course).


Dealer also going to ask about total time in water. They sold the boat new to the original owner.

Thanks again for the info. I'm a little ignorant regarding bottom paint and affects of moorage so the guidance is much appreciated.

Hope to be on the water soon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tcr_pnw



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 143
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea Star
Photos: Sea Star
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesTXSD wrote:
I'm OK with bottom paint. In fact, we have put it on all our boats. While there are different types of bottom paint, the only issue I see with what is on there is the streaking... it makes me wonder if some sort of hull cleaner was used that was allowed to run down on the bottom paint? Again, not a deal breaker, a bit of the same bottom paint as touch up would go a long ways towards making it look... prettier.

Bottom paint is generally not smooth like the gel-coat. On a sailboat we used to race, we did have the bottom paint sprayed on in multiple layers and it was smooth as a baby's bottom. That really isn't necessary on a C-Dory. If it makes you feel any better, when I see bottom paint on a boat, I tend to think, "Now, there's a boat that gets to see some water time."

Just an opinion from viewing the photo, but have a boat yard look at it if you have any concerns.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

Thanks Jim. A reputable dealer has the boat on their lot on consignment. They sold it new. They are going find some back story on the paint and how much time it spent moored. Regarding the paint, he wasnt sure what it is. It is a really thick coating, like that of a fingernail. I would love to touch it up and finish out the transom where it is staggered but he thought it was pretty specialized.

Is it an issue to paint over those areas that sat uncoated? Where you can see the discoloration? Is the same paint required?

Thanks again,

Troy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Larry H



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1817
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copper containing bottom paint must NOT contact the aluminum motor parts. The copper will cause corrosion in the aluminum motor parts.

That bottom paint was patterned/spaced around the metal parts for that reason.

_________________
Larry H

A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Puget Trawler 37 'Jacari Maru'
1991 22' Cruiser,'Nancy H'--1991-2006
MacMini Intel 2.53Gh--4GB ram
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tcr_pnw



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 143
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea Star
Photos: Sea Star
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry H wrote:
Copper containing bottom paint must NOT contact the aluminum motor parts. The copper will cause corrosion in the aluminum motor parts.

That bottom paint was patterned/spaced around the metal parts for that reason.

Thanks for clarifying Larry!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 2926
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tcr_pnw wrote:
Regarding the paint, he wasnt sure what it is. It is a really thick coating, like that of a fingernail.


That's not unusual for bottom paint, although at some point it's too thick (adds weight) and wants to be stripped back to start over - however that's unlikely on a 2008, as it's usually due to many years and coats of paint - sort of like old roofs with multiple layers of shingles. It's also possible a barrier coat was put on before the bottom paint, which needs a certain millage to work properly (usually around five coats). That would usually be grey, although not always.

tcr_pnw wrote:
I would love to touch it up and finish out the transom where it is staggered but he thought it was pretty specialized.


I really can't think of what bottom paint is so specialized that it couldn't be purchased and touched up. That said, as was mentioned above, I think you want to be careful with any copper paint around aluminum, because they are not close on the galvanic scale, and with the aluminum being less noble it will "sacrifice" itself to the copper. Maybe that's what the seller meant (?). However, that said, most C-Dory's have aluminum motor brackets and oftentimes aluminum Mini-Jackers, and I'm not sure I've seen this sort of staggered effect before, so maybe the zinc on the engine forestalls the problem? Others will know more about this than I do, as I have never had a bottom-painted saltwater boat with an aluminum engine/bracket.

tcr_pnw wrote:
Is it an issue to paint over those areas that sat uncoated? Where you can see the discoloration? Is the same paint required?


On the first part, see above about the possible interaction with the aluminum. Painting over the discolored part should be no problem. You may be able to use the same paint, but if not, then know that some bottom paints can be painted over others, but some can't. Generally, a softer paint can go over a harder one, but not vice-versa. Nothing can go over vinyl paints but more vinyl paint, but that doesn't look like vinyl and it's usually in fresh water anyway. If it's an ablative (soft) paint, and you rub it with a glove or etc. it will tend to "smear off" on you, so that's a clue. Also, unless things have changed (which they my have) not all bottom paints come in dark blue, so that's another clue. Interlux Micron Extra comes in navy (an ablative) and Pettit Vivid might too.

Here is a chart that shows a bit more about bottom paint compatibility:

http://content.westmarine.com/documents/pdfs/WestAdvisor/Bottom_Paint_Compatibility_Chart_2012.xls.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
potter water



Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 891
City/Region: Logan
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Still C-razy
Photos: Still C-razy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've gotten some good advice...specially on inspecting for core rot. But from an aesthetic point of view:

There's a lot of "ugly" at the back end of that boat. Trailer looks a little corroded too. I think for your 42 grand you might be able to do better. I suppose I'd tell the dealer that AFTER they have really cleaned things up you would make them an offer. BUT with the boat being moored, who knows how well the prior owner kept things maintained. It's looking rougher than it should in the aft end there than a well maintained salt water boat should look when a dealer is trying to move it. To me, "UGLY" is only a red flag, not a deal killer. Where is as is, I'd shoot for south of 40 grand, perhaps significantly.

_________________
You can tell a man his wife is ugly, but never ever criticize his dog, his gun, his truck or his boat.

Never let ignorance interfere with an opportunity to state a knowledgeable opinion

KG7RC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 11551
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Thisaway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see any major issue with the bottom paint--looks like 'hard" parent. Probably epoxy barrier first. Blue gel coat beneath. The stains above the paint are mostly splash lines, not water lines. They will clean up You can sand the paint (by hand, using a suit, and respirator)--and smooth it up, but little difference in speed. If you leave the boat in the water more than 2 weeks when cruising, the paint will retorted growth. I paint most of my boats even though they live in lifts and trailer. Vivid by Petit makes good paints for trailering and in collars which are suitable.

I do see a little corrosion on the outboard, and OB zinc--which should be replaced. Trialer looks OK--just was not washed and dryer after each launch--at least wash it.

If the boat is otherwise good--go for it, looking for water intrusion in the hull.

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Matt Gurnsey
Dealer


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 1530
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
Photos: Kitsap Marina
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks pretty normal for a low use, four year old boat. Looks like the paint was professionally done, and done well.

The hard modified epoxy paints will lose effectivness with age, but will look good for years. It won't look all shiney like gel coat, but the boat was obviously used in salt water a bit, and the owner took precautions to prevent problems. That's the kind of care you're loking for in a used boat.

I'd say go for it.

_________________
Matt Gurnsey
Kitsap Marina
www.kitsapmarina.com
360-895-2193
(888) 293-7991
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Larry H



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1817
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the gap in the paint on the stern is a visual problem, that gap could be painted with a regular marine paint (NOT bottom paint), color matched to the bottom paint.

Most of the time, that gap will not be visible. You can't see it from inside the boat or when the boat is in the water.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Robert H. Wilkinson



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 361
City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Robert H. (Name TBD)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to sand bottom paint - definitely take Bob's advice and wear a respirator - it can contain some nasty toxins.

Not sure about your area but in Canada a lot of lakes have banned ablative bottom paints containing copper. There is a company that makes a bottom paint that looks the same as copper but doesn't actually contain any. They use it on old woody's to maintain the heritage look.

Regards, Rob

_________________
Talk to me and I will listen-- but if its not about boats or fishing all I will hear is bla,bla,bla,yada,yada,zzzzzzzz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
roydawn



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 43
City/Region: No Fort Myers
State or Province: FL
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm betting the thickness of the bottom paint on that 4 year old boat is from an extra thick epoxy barrier coat. On my trawler the West barrier coat was almost an 1/8" thick. I would look close at the corrosion. Roy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tokelandpete



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 10
City/Region: tacoma
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow
Don't sweat the small stuff. Around here bottom paint is a blessing. You dont even want to see it after a weeks of growth and stain without paint plus the effort to wash and rub it out. Now you can just pressure wash when done and your good.
Better off enjoying the boat and have fun.
Good luck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All C-Dorys, All The Time All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.1055s (PHP: 67% - SQL: 33%) - SQL queries: 32 - GZIP disabled - Debug on