Buying a C-Dory

[ssobol]

We recently discovered C-Dory boats. We had been considering some sort of smaller trawler (e.g. Albin 27). While that type of boat is economical, the slow cruise speed was kind of a turnoff. C-Dory boats seem to get reasonable fuel consumption with a reasonable speed and the capability for high speed dashes (in the right conditions). We would be using this boat mostly in the vicinity of the Chesapeake Bay and the rivers feeding it. But might put it on the Great Lakes sometimes.

After reading through the stuff on this website I am torn between the 22 cruiser and the 25 cruiser. We've seen a 25 at a dock (which started this whole thing), but is was locked up and we did not get on board.

Most of the time we would only be going out for a couple of days at a time, but would like to be able to take longer excursions if the opportunity arose. We don't live right near the water and would have to trailer the boat or keep it at a marina. Having a trailerable boat that can be taken to new places has a lot of appeal to us.

While the 22 and 25 boats are similar in design the extra space in the 25 has some attractions (fwd facing 'navigator' seat, head, more storage). The 22 has better fuel economy and seems easier to trailer, but might be too cozy for longer periods on board. There is ~$20K premium on the 25 vs. the 22.

What is the general opinion of the 22 vs. the 25?

When looking at used boats (of either type) are there specific things to look out for?

Thanks.

[Sunbeam]

Just a couple of notes - others with more experience will no doubt contribute as well.

1) You can get a 22 Cruiser with a forward facing co-pilot seat. Most of the later model 22's have the option (probably became standard at some point, but started around 2005 as a somewhat-rare option, and just got more and more common). Basically the forward dinette seat slides back and forth and the occupant can then face either forward (co-pilot position) or aft (at the dinette).

2) One big difference that may or may not matter to you (was a deciding factor for me; won't be for everyone) is that a 22 Cruiser will be in the neighborhood of 5,000# "all up" for towing, whereas the 25 is somewhere in the 8500# range.

[Sunbeam]

I received a PM that made me realize that I should clarify what I wrote above: I don't think all trailered 25's would necessarily weigh 8,500#. I think that would be one loaded for cruising. OTOH, a 5,000# 22 would probably also be loaded for cruising. I imagine both numbers (8,500# and 5,000#) would be lower for "bare" or very lightly loaded boats. The main thing I was trying to explain was that the 25, despite being "only" two feet longer, is nearly twice as heavy when it comes to towing. Of course it's a bigger boat (with the expected extra features).

This may not be an issue for many people (and if the 25 is the right boat for someone, they will probably happily obtain the proper tow vehicle for the weight), but it's just something that folks may not realize, and if, for example, someone already has a half-ton truck, a camper van, or etc. -- that they want to keep -- it may make a difference. I believe that there were figures (published?) by C-Dory in the past that would have had people expecting a loaded 25 to weigh closer to 6,500#.

I wasn't arguing "for" either boat, mind you. There are many happy owners of both.

Sunbeam

[JamesTXSD]

Welcome aboard Ssobol,

This topic (22 vs 25) comes up very regularly here. Both models have their supporters and both are very capable boats. If you do a search here, you will find enough material to read to keep you busy for the next week or so.

Both models have been cruised extensively. We have a 25, so that is obviously our preference. We just came off of nearly 6 months on our boat... I could not see us doing that with a 22. A lot of people think of the 25 as a 22 with an enclosed head, but it is a lot more than that: more room, more storage, a bigger cockpit, bigger dinette, more room to pass in the aisle, more amenities (hot and cold pressure water, fridge, 110 electric, etc). It is also heavier (as already mentioned here), which means more tow vehicle is needed if you intend to tow.

Both boats are easy to launch and retrieve, if you have experience with trailerable boats. We prefer the ride of the 25, but you are going to use more fuel to cover the same distance. Over the long haul, the difference may be 1 to 2 mpg... go easy on the throttle and both models are reasonably efficient (for a boat).

Of course, the best thing would be for you to experience both boats. We're coming into the season where there aren't as many boats out and about, nor C-Brat gatherings. Depending on your timeframe for acquisition, I'd suggest going to a gathering or make a trip to a stocking dealer (like Wefings in Florida).

Good luck with your search. Many of us here started just like you are doing, asking the same questions. There is a wealth of experience and information to be gleaned here. You are in the right place to find out about all things C-Dory.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[schiavolou]

Here's my input on this topic from three years ago. After three additional seasons on the 25, I'm even more sure that the 25 is right for us. I spend a lot of nights aboard and appreciate the extra room.

We had a 22 for one season and loved it, though we felt a little cramped when spending weekends aboard. Then we got a deal we couldn't refuse on a 25 and traded up. After two seasons , no regrets.
Pros of the 25:
more room in cabin and cockpit
more power w/150 vs 90hp
more amenities - windlass, shore power (you can get these on a 22), head w/shower.
fewer pier-strollers say "cute boat"
Cons:
harder to trailer
more systems to maintain
everything, from slip fees to routine maintenance to insurance is more costly

Still we went with the 25 even tho' it cost about 50% more, and cost WAS an object.
Lou S.
Skimmer (II)

[Sea Wolf]

Lots of good advice above! I'll mention one more difference.

One of the the key deciding points for many couples over the years is the preference of the female half of the crew for the 25 because of the enclosed and separate head, shower, and hot water heater.

Not all women feel that these are extra important, but many do, and are willing to pay more to have those amenities. For some, it's a go/no-go decision maker!

No doubt part of the decision will be based on how long you intend to stay out on cruises, where you'll be staying, and what shore facilities you'll expect to have available as well.

Talk to the Admiral, and see how she feels about this.

Good Luck!

Joe.

[jennykatz]

Another option is the cc-23 or Venture 23 same hull different amenities (nicer teak drawers ,vinyl cabin roof nicer look inside )
the cd-22with a 90hp Suzuki got 4-5 mpg easy to tow about 3800lb without water and gas not cruise ready .The cc-23 weighs 5000lb without water and very little gas 10 gallons or so .I've been getting 4.2-4.4 mpg statute with a f115 yamaha on the cc-23.
The reason we looked at the cc-23 was the bigger cockpit almost same size as cd-25 .The cockpit was easier to get into with larger step on side also the transom is enclosed much safer in following seas . Inside the V-berth is a little wider and longer plus the anchor locker is enclosed . The seats make up into a bed or forward facing also 6.2 headroom . The boat is finished off in nice gel coated fiberglass not dacraquard wood ? I liked this finish a lot better so did my wife . The boat rides a lot quieter then the cd-22 tighter and seems to be put together better . Also the ride is way superior to the cd 22 and rivals the cd 25 because of a deeper deadrise and weight over the cd -22.I would be happy to discuss the atributes of both cd-22 and cc-23 . Now look at boats for sale I think there are 2 cc-23 for sale .Good Luck in your Quest. Jim photos of both boats jennykatz check them out

[JamesTXSD]

I have to chuckle when the talk turns to "the little woman wanting an enclosed head" on the boat. We have had boats that had no shower, and we used a porta-potty... and showered in the cockpit (or on our trimaran: on the nets). You can make almost anything work. Heck, Pat and Patty have overnighted on their 16... ask 'em which is more comfortable: that or their 25?

No matter how minimalist you feel you can be, do you have a bathroom in your house? Does only the female part of the couple use the bathroom? Would you rent a motel room that didn't have a shower? "It's OK, there is a porta-potty under the bed that you can use." You might have second thoughts about paying good money for that room.

Oh, we get it. We tent camped for years. Did so on motorcycles, too. Built a van interior that we used to camp in. Had a couple VW campers. Had some sailboats that didn't have full enclosed heads. I'm only relating this as background... at some point, if you are going to spend time on the boat, you are going to want some amenities. The difference between making it work and being comfortable.

I also understand that the $$ difference is significant (the reason we tent camped in our younger years). Unless you live on an island, you probably don't need a boat. It's a matter of desire. So, you make your desires, budget, and circumstances mesh to get the boat that "fits."

For us, the 25 is the smallest, most affordable boat that is trailerable and allows us to spend extended time onboard. Even if it's just a weekend out, I still like a shower and (TMI ALERT!!) a place to go to the bathroom with reasonable privacy. Some folks can do with less and be happy; we've also met bigger boat owners who are horrified at the prospect of what we do (OK, a lot of landlubbers, as well).

What it really comes down to is finding the right fit for YOUR circumstances. Buy too big or too small, and you will find yourself having regrets. Have you ever heard someone say, "Ya know, we're just too darn comfortable on this boat." ??

If you haven't done it before, some things are a leap of faith. Dr. Bob and I have discussed having friends who "had the dream" and found out boating wasn't for them. Many people "start small" and work their way up with boats. Not sure about the sound economics of that... I've decided you should buy your third boat first... if only I knew then what I know now.

Enjoy the search.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[hardee]

Tons of wisdom in these last few posts. yes I have a 22 Cruiser, and yes I love it, and yes I can handle it just fine, and yes I do spend overnights on it, (up to 6 nights so far, but that limitation is doe to w#$*_k not the boat.

YES, I would like an on board shower, and yes, an enclosed head (AirHead) would be nice, but do I need the room of the 25? Do I want the expense of the bigger set of twins, or bigger OB? Do I want to need a bigger tow rig? Not really. Do I miss having those things? Not really. I can adjust, adapt, and accommodate in other ways. And Those ways work. Do I wish I had purchased a 25. Maybe, but do I loose any sleep over that? No.

The boat I bought was the owners 34th boat over his life time. He was setting it up to be his last boat. By then he knew what worked, what was good, and what they needed. It was going to be home on the water, to Alaska and the Keys... I feel pretty blessed to have that project as my own now.

Good luck with making your decisions.

Harvey
SleepyC

[roydawn]

Jim B, We are looking at buying our 3rd trawler,so your comments hit home. We are waffling between a 22-25 also. Looked at both, liked the ecomony of the 22, which we need, BUT we lived on a 34' Marine Trader for 9 mons. & a 42 Grand Banks for 9 yrs. Now fully retired the 25' C-D looks GREAT! Our current vehicle will tow 5,000, ie 22'. BUT I need a HOT shower, & we are used to 40 gal. holding tanks. [don't want to carry a porta-potty to the john]. It is a big decision, as to 22 vrs. 25. ONLY time & BUDGET will tell! Roy

[JamesTXSD]

There are a lot more 22s than 25s out there. Granted, the 22s have been in production longer, but it is obvious that they fill a need. All the reasons the 25 works for us has no bearing on why a 22 works for others. Each owner has different uses and requirements. Budget has to figure into the equation. A lot of people think getting out on the water is expensive... When you have the "right boat", it is priceless.

There are more and more of us in that "soon to be retired" age group... folks looking for a retirement adventure - the Great Loop, up to Alaska, off to the Bahamas. Maybe less ambitious travels? Tom Sawyer-ing it down the rivers. Weeks on Lake Powell. The C-Dorys are very capable boats; the trailerability makes all of these dreams achievable.

After spending 6 months on our boat, I can see the appeal of a bigger in-the-water boat, too. Some here might cry "Blasphemy!"... if budget weren't a constraint, I'd have a BUNCH of boats. For us, for now, our C-Dory is the right boat. A Marine Trader or a Grand Banks would be interesting... if one were going to stay pretty much in one area (or at least one coast).

I quit saying, "I'll never ask for anything ever again..." when I was a kid. Joan knows better.

Good luck with your search.

Best wishes,
Jim

[thataway]

Since I have owned first a 22, then a Tom Cat, a 25 and then back to a 22, I am fairly well qualified to discuss the differences (We kept the Tom Cat in FL, the first 22 and 25 on the West Coast).

Trailering--much easier with the 22.
We spent a total about 60 days aboard our 22 this spring and summer. We did not find any discomfort with that time. We used a sun shower, we used marina or camp ground showers, we bathed in the river or lake, and we did sponge baths. (We have a history of over 13 years living aboard boats--a number of which did not have a shower) The shower in the C Dory 25, is a bit tight for me--the Tom Cat is a little bigger--but it taint like home!

The porti potty. It hit home at the Gulf Coast gathering. I spent Saturday on a 25. When I used the head, the content came up thru the valve--the 9 gallon tank was full, and there was NO place in Apalachicola to pump the boat out--and no macerator, even if we wanted to run out 3 miles to sea in 15 to 20 knots of head winds....With a porti potty it could have been dumped any number of places.. I see the porti potty as an advantage--after spending over 50 years dealing with various marine heads, holding tanks etc: KISS!

The "forward facing navigator seat"--my wife has sat in the foreword facing aft dinette seat in all of our boats (including big trawlers which had specific navigator seats). She can stand next to me or side saddle on the aft facing front seat in the 22. if she had to come forward to look at something, or help with navigation. It is more comfortable riding in the aft dinette seat! No reason to convert. We kept the dinette seats facing each other in the 25, and used the area between the bulkhead and back of the foreword seat for storage.

There is more storage in the 25. But both have adequate for a month at least.

Cheaper to run--the 22. Cheaper to tow (both fuel and truck)

As far as "seaworthiness--probably equal, but the 25 being a bigger boat will ride a bit better.

I strongly recommend that with either boat you get both trim tabs and a Permatrim foil for the outboard.

So...that is why we went back to the 22!

[roydawn]

Thanks for the replies.
Jim, we did the Loop 10 yrs. ago on the 42 Grand Banks, would like to parts of it again in a C-Dory. Mostly 3-6 week trips, also hauling to CD to Maine, Mi. etc. So we like the size of a 25 for those trips. But with the cost: boat, fuel, tow truck etc. the 22 is looking better. We still tent camp so the C-D will be a big step up from that.
Bob, I too like the KISS system. May have to rethink the Porta-Potty issue, you made some good points. We had the 40 gal. holding tank for the master head & an Electro-San for the guest as back up. I did spend a lot of time fixing both of those systems.
Questions,1] has anyone added a roof mount AC on a 22 & used a Honda 2000 to power it? 2] How long can you be on the hook with the Porta-Potty with 2 people, ie how many flushes can you do? 3] Has anyone added additional water storage to their 22, or is it best to carry a few 5 gal. jugs.
Roy

[thataway]

We put the RV AC unit on the Tom Cat--would work as well on the 22, but I would suggest that you put a frame inside or the cabin, and a flat rim of the 14" opening on the top with glass, to be sure you don't distort the glass and cause some water intrusion. The Coleman 9200 BTU unit works great with the EU 2000i.

The port ipotty--we empty about every 3 days to 5 day on Powell. But Catalina, we went for a week--same on the Delta and PNW. At night most sterile urine goes overboard.

We never seem to run out of water--but we did a TransPac with 10 aboard and 50 gallons of water, some left after 15 days! The 20 or so gallons lasts well. We do keep a 5 gallon can in the cockpit and put it thru a Brita Filter to fill our water bottles each day. Most places we use lake or sea water for dishes, rinse with fresh water out of the tank if necessary. The foot pump is slow--that is the reason we keep it. The first 22 and both the 25 and 255 had electric pumps--water didn't last anywhere as long!

[colobear]

Hi,

We have a 22 and have cruised for as long as 5 weeks straight in pretty remote areas. We carry 20 gallons of water in the main tank, plus another 2 gallons in smaller containers. We refill every two weeks or so and have never run short of water. We agree with Bob about the porta potti. Ours is 7 years old, well-used and functions perfectly. We empty it when the red/green gauge starts to show about half red. Emptying it seems pretty routine. One thing we really like about the 22 is there are no systems we cannot see or fix. No macerators, water pumps, refrigerators, etc. As the fix-it guy I really like that. A friend with a 25 is now in the middle of a $3K fuel tank replacement that came to light when he discovered 6+ gallons of gasoline in the bilge, the tank had corroded but he could not see it under the cockpit sole. (we don't have a bilge either ) The main point that seems to push people to the 25 is the head/shower. 25s are really nice boats but the 22 works for us.