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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember the exact details, but I think gels are (even more) sensitive to charging voltages, etc. than AGM's. So that may be part of the issue. As I said, I'm a bit foggy on it by now, but when I was researching it, I don't remember any good reason to choose gels over AGM (they are both SVRLA) and there were a few downsides to gel (related to charging, I believe). Maybe someone who is fresher on it will explain better (or correct me if I'm wrong).

You could take a look in the manual that your battery mfgr. publishes. At least for the ones I have had they publish very detailed charging specs for all stages, temperature compensation factors, etc. (Of course the outboard is a pretty "wild" form of charging, but a shore or solar charger should (one hopes) be adjustable, have temperature compensation, etc.)

OTOH, if you have a shore charger that isn't adjustable, or doesn't have temperature compensation, and if the gels are fairly demanding (persnickety), then that could be the (or part of the) problem.
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 638
City/Region: Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="hardee"]I have 2 Interstate, Group 29s, that are Marine Deep Cycle. They are going on 4 years now. My last set went 6 years and I replaced them just for the age. Last winter, (Dec), I started using "Battery Minder" maintenance chargers and am very impressed.

Harvey, I have two Interstate, deep cycle AGM's as well, model# INTSDC115-12 ($302 purchased 05/2015), and INTSDC8512 ($250 purchased 05/2015). These batteries cost a fortune, yet my $302 'house' battery lasted only 50 hours. I just don't get it -- why are these batteries dying? And why is only my house battery dying? This is a huge problem. I'm using Blue Sea Systems' a m-Seriers Dual Circuit Plus battery switch and Automatic Charge Relay with starting isolation. Either something is killing my battery, or it is the battery itself. You appear to manage the batteries yourself using Battery Minder. I have my marina pull my batteries own the off-season, and they are supposed to put the batteries on trickle charge. I think I'm going to do my own battery management from now on, and may need to try other battery manufacturers. This situation is perturbing, to say the least.

Rich

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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 638
City/Region: Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunbeam wrote:
I can't remember the exact details, but I think gels are (even more) sensitive to charging voltages, etc. than AGM's. .


I'm sorry Sunbeam in referring to my batteries as Gel's -- these are AGM's. Nevertheless, AGM's are sensitive to overcharging. The thing I don't get, is that both batteries are AGM's, but only the house battery fails. The funny thing about this, is that we now exclusively use shore power. The house battery is used for all electrical systems on the boat during operation to the exclusion of starting the engine. I'm perplexed.

Rich
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My IRA



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,

Is your charger set for AGM or Lead Acid wet cells? Just a thought.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interstate batteries have a great reputation. I have two group 31's which are over 7 years old, and still going strong starting a 8.3 L. Diesel on our RV.

Causes that the AGM house battery/batteries, may fail, include over discharge. I make a rule not to discharge the batteries more than 50%, either by State of Charge, or not allowing steady state, resting voltage to fall below 12.2 volts. Some battery manufactures say that AGM can be completely discharged, and not be harmed. This is not the general consensus.

We don't know what "trickle charging" means. If the AMG batteries are left on a charger it should be at a float voltage of 13.5 to 13.7 volts. Many "trickle" chargers are higher voltage, and this may damage an AGM. AGM can go 6 months without recharging. The self discharge rate is only about 1-2% per month. For storage, I like to run a smart charger every month or so for 24 hours. An option is a timer to give half an hour a day.

Heat, is always an enemy of batteries. Although AGM are a bit more robust than lead acid--too much vibration or pounding can damage them...(I believe this is very rare in boats--and not a problem in your case)

If you have a combiner, it should be taken out of the circuit when leaving the batteries on a good charger. The smart charger (which you have) will work better if it "sees" each battery individually. Some chargers say, that you can use the combiner, and that the "smart charger" takes that into account.

Always be sure that there is no corrosion on any of the battery cables, or charging cables. Take the connections apart each year, and put a film of conductive grease on the fittings when you re-assemble.

Sunbeam--Gel cell batteries should not be charged at over 14.1 volts.

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Thataway
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Dr. Bob,
I very much appreciate your input and recommendations on this matter.

So let me look at each of your probable causes for battery failure as would be applied in my case:

1. My latest battery was never over-discharged, in fact, it was very lightly discharged. HOWEVER, when my wife and I were at Cap Sante for three weeks in 2011, our battery was heavily discharged. So that is why the first battery may have failed.
2. These are kept cool in a boat house mist of the time
3. These all have clean contacts
4. I put 50 hours on the boat, and there is little pounding. There is very little vibration in the stern while under way.
5. Assuming the issue is not with Interstate batteries as you and others suggest, I am seriously thinking that I should look into my marina's battery charging practices as the culprit. My last two batteries were managed by them over the off-season. And you are absolutely right on AGM's. My Cabela's AGM, at 7 year's old held its charge over the winter. So I'm taking care of my own batteries from now on.

Again, thank you.

Rich
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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Vessel Name: Betty Ann
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My IRA wrote:
Rich,

Is your charger set for AGM or Lead Acid wet cells? Just a thought.


I have a Blue Seas Systems ACR, and there is no setting I can find n the device or in the literature.
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Sunbeam



Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Nile wrote:

I'm sorry Sunbeam in referring to my batteries as Gel's -- these are AGM's.


This quote from up-thread is what made me think they were gel batteries (emboldening mine):

C-Nile wrote:
I've just had my third Interstate battery fail within four years. Are other people having problems with Interstate batteries? One theory I have is that the charge rate may be too high for Gel batteries.
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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Vessel Name: Betty Ann
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunbeam wrote:
C-Nile wrote:

I'm sorry Sunbeam in referring to my batteries as Gel's -- these are AGM's.


This quote from up-thread is what made me think they were gel batteries (emboldening mine):

C-Nile wrote:
I've just had my third Interstate battery fail within four years. Are other people having problems with Interstate batteries? One theory I have is that the charge rate may be too high for Gel batteries.


You are absolutely right, it was my mistake.
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:16 am    Post subject: Sleeping on the Marinaut Reply with quote

Back to the thread on sleeping on the Marinaut (after hijacking my own thread) -- we are currently spending a week on the Betty Ann in Greenport. We added a 1.5" egg crate foam to the two egg crate foams already there. That totals to approximately 4" of foam and the 1" of fill in our sleeping bag (last year, we cut the extra long sleeping bag to fit the birth. When it is warm, we sleep on the outside of the bag, and when it is cold, we sleep on the fleece side.) It is now giving us the padding we need to sleep soundly and without any pressure points. We are heavy people who sleep on our sides, so we need the extra padding. Thinner people may need less foam. I just want to report to the group not to be afraid to add more foam, because it had little affect on reduction of headroom, but it made all the difference in the world in giving us a good nights sleep.
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RoseDoctor



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
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City/Region: Olympia/Pacific Northwest
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C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: Marinaut 215
Vessel Name: SEEKER
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Back to sleeping Reply with quote

Rich and others.
I just got my sheets of Hypervent and am getting ready to cut them up and install them in the V-berth of my Marinaut 215. I am wondering if I need to somehow anchor or stick them to the fiberglass bed surfaces so they don't slide around. Is it necessary to do this? If so, what are your suggestions on how to do it?
Gary
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fit the Hypervent to the dimension of the berth cushions. It is not necessary to stick it in place. The temptation is to leave excess Hypervent to extend beyond the perimeter of the cushion, which we found to be a mistake. It made sleeping uncomfortable. This of course is my opinion. I suggest going to the general forum and get advice, too, from the c-brats community.

Rich
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RoseDoctor



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
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City/Region: Olympia/Pacific Northwest
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C-Dory Year: 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:38 pm    Post subject: Hypervent Reply with quote

Rich,
Should I cut out the rectangular center section (above the open space) or should I leave it in place?
Gary
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C-Nile



Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Hypervent Reply with quote

RoseDoctor wrote:
Rich,
Should I cut out the rectangular center section (above the open space) or should I leave it in place?
Gary


I'm sorry -- I spent all my time on the boat and not on this site. I think by now you realize what to do.

I've got to tell you that we nailed the sleeping situation by taking the following actions:
1) We only use hyper vent for the first few weeks on the season, and don't need it afterwards.
2) We use one layer of 2" egg crate foam first
3) We have another player of 1" memory foam on top of the first
4) And we cut an extra long sleeping bag into the shape of the berth to use as the sleep surface. Outside surface is up in the summer, and the inside, fleece surface is up when it is cold outside. It was so easy to do this. I cut it to shape with scissors, and stitched it with heavy duty thread and a needle. As often as needed, we wash the sleeping bag and put it in a dryer.

Rich
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RoseDoctor



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
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City/Region: Olympia/Pacific Northwest
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C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: Marinaut 215
Vessel Name: SEEKER
Photos: SEEKER
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Sleeping on the Marinaut Reply with quote

Hi Rich,
You're right - we have it pretty well figured out by now.

Marilyn and I spent 15 nights on board SEEKER in cold Puget Sound water this summer. We left the mat down all summer and slept in down sleeping bags right on the foam pads that are in the boat. Nothing else was needed except two really good quality pillows. It worked fine for us.

We tried sleeping with feet towards both the bow and the stern and much prefer having our feet forward. We had a bit of condensation on parts of the boat walls on cold mornings but it did not last long and was not a problem.

All in all - we had a ball on SEEKER and cannot wait until next summer.

Gary
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