following sea

[Island Ranger]

Since I replaced my unit - it is now working really well. I've started adjusting the response level for trolling (way down) and high speed cruising (up a little). It works great.

Any chance the settings in calibration are wrong? Les changed mine from when he initially outfitted Two Lucky Fish. I left the manual on board, but would be glad to review the settings if you want. I remember that it wasn't what I had thought it should be.......

mac

[Mighty Bite]

My Raymarine ST6001 autopilot has been a problem pretty much from the outset and worsened as time went on. It took a spell where the autopilot would constantly hunt the engine back and forth which was irritating to say the least. This past summer the display would show the boat going in the wrong direction and in some cases 180 degrees off. This continued to get worse until I could take a heading toward a point and reverse my course and the autopilot heading remained unchanged.

I sent the unit in to Raymarine and just recently got it back. They upgraded to the newest software and said they located the problem. One of the components was soldered in backwards, which they corrected.
Also, mentioned that they had a number of the units that appeared to be working ok initially but were flawed and they degraded over a relatively short period of time and required service. They said they've corrected this problem.

The good news is that I merely disconnected the power to the autopilot this summer and fall and that corrected the problem of the boat not showing the true course of travel on the display. Thus, I was comfortable with the Ray...C80 system navigating the abundance of fog we had this past season. The bad new is that it's snowing outside right now and I won't be able to recalibrate and confirm the autopilot fix until next spring..........sigh.

[orfelia]

[Sea Wolf]

Kris-

Sounds like you've been there, done that!

I noticed you just joined up today. Welcome to the C-Brats!

How long have you had the C-Dory, and how long have you lived in Hawaii? Is your boat trailered or moored? Do you know of any other C-Dorys there?

If you'd like an album in which to put photos of your boat and other activities, Mike (Tyboo) or Bill (Da Nang) can set one up for you.

Nice having you aboard! Joe.

[Little Catelyn]

Sorry to continue on about raymarine problems on this thread about following seas, but I am interested in those settings that Mac mentioned. I've been experiencing problems since the Blakley gathering when the boat was only two weeks old. The chart appeared 20 to 30 degrees off in head-up mode and radar returns were offset from the chart. On the next daytrip the system appeared to be okay (or close), but on the following trip the problem was event as soon as we departed. The chart was a good 30 degrees off and it hit me --- metal items stored by the fluxgate, hmmm! So, with the autopilot ON I told Lynn to watch the helm and I looked under the cabinet and found a container with canned goods had shifted aft against the bulkhead. The boat made an immediate turn to starboard as I shoved the container forward --- got it! But since then I still am having the same problem despite having moved problem items. And I am also getting XTE errors, where the autopilot will go from whatever mode into this XTE cross-track error.

Gotta go,
Corwin

[Sealife]

Steve,

Check the response number on your display. From the factory, it was set on 5, and worked fine, but the other day, when it was a little rougher, and I had the seas at my back, it would drift down wind .02 to .03XTE. I tried raising the response to 7, and bingo it gradually steered back on course and the cross track error disappeared.

Check also to see if you have the G series corepack. It's the advanced system that virtually eliminates drift and cross track error. If you don't have it, you can upgrade to it.

[Island Ranger]

Interesting. I had the similar random tracking performance with mine - sometimes it worked - sometimes it couldn't hold a waypoint. I also saw large deltas between the ship's heading and the course made good - in the 20-30 degree delta mode (and not because of current either).

My tracking difficulties went away when I replaced the core unit (and flux compass) a couple months ago. I wonder if the new unit had the newer software? I never heard of an upgrade, and haven't found it on the Raymarine website. I will keep looking to see if I can find anything..

I do still see significant deltas between my ships heading and COG -not as large, and it doesn't seem to interfere with anything now ('except radar overlay I suspect). I've re-run the sea trial cal - no big diff.

Mac

[Sealife]

Mac,

There are two versions of the ST6001, with the "G" version having "a built in Rate Gyro for improved performance through Raymarine's AST (Advanced Steering Technology)". I assume you are using hydraulic steering also. For our size boats, we would use the S1G corepack.

[Island Ranger]

Yep - I've got the S1G corepack, with hydraulic steering. I still can't find anything regarding an upgrade to it however...but this one works and my previous one didn't!

Mac

[SeaSpray]

I also have the Gyro system. I have been adjusting the rate value but I don't think I got above 4 or 5, maybe I just needed to go higher. I had to remove all metal from under the sink/stove cabinet to get decent functioning.
Mac, if you get the setting I would like to compare with mine, but not sure when I will be getting out again.
Steve

[Island Ranger]

Sure will, Steve-

I'm headed out tomorrow early to catch the tide at our channel, and run up to Sequim. I'll try to remember to jot down the settings so I have 'em.

btw - I measured 40 kts at the house this afternoon - and I'm protected by the hills behind my house. They measured 50 kts in Mukilteo...Ooch!

Mac

[orfelia]

[Sea Wolf]

Kris-

Thanks for the reply! It's nice to hear from new members about themselves so that we can become better aquainted more quickly.

Glad to hear you're enjoying the C-Dory and fulfilling a dream. Be sure to ask any questions you have as there are plenty of us out here willing to share our ideas with you. Joe.

[SeaSpray]

Hi Kris,
You need to watch out for those surf breaks. I have heard the surfers can get real mean if you try to share their waves - especially with a C-Dory!

Glad it turned out okay with that 7ft wave. I am sure you have some great cruising in your area. One day I hope to get to Hawaii but won't be able to bring the C-Dory.

Steve

[Sea Wolf]

Ok, fellas, I'm getting confused here.

We started talking about control in following seas, then branched off into Autopilot malfunctions (a very good subject), and are also dealing with a related topic (cavitation in quartering seas) on the other web site (C-Dogs).

Maybe we should get Tyboo or Bill to separate the Autopilot discussion from the following seas one for sake of clarity.

Then I have a question after re-reading through the discussion up 'till now:

Are you folks with the autopilots using them in following and quartering seas of any size? If so, I think that something doesn't match up here with what I learned from 30 years of sailboat racing, namely that it was ultra important to steer actively through each wave to make use of the energy in the wave and present the hull to the wave properly to minimize forward resistance and generate maximum forward speed. This puts you in control instead of the wave. You have to make it your friend, not your enemy.

Active steering to promote surfing and to minimize forward resistance to the boat results in steering a weaving pattern as one feels the forces of the waves acting on the hull and steers to slip forward with minimal resistance and maximum speed. This is harder to sense and do in a boat the size of a C--Dory than a light 15-20 foot planning sailboat, but the process is the same. Probably takes longer to learn in a heavy, less sensitive boat.

Make the wave push the boat forward on the wave's front side, surf down and across the wave face, and, when necessary or possible, climb the backside of the next wave ahead at the lowest possible angle and then drop through the lowest point in the crest and start down that wave's front face and begin the process all over again. This usually results in a more or less continuous but variable "S" course pattern, not a straight line.

Another variation here is to try to vary the throttle to stay on the front side of the wave, letting it push or surf you along, trying to stay ahead of the wave's peak behind and avoiding digging the bow into the trough ahead.

With the C-Dory's tendency to get it's butt pushed around by following and quartering seas and the subsequent tendencies to dig in the bow and broach, careful throttle control and placement of the boat in the wave forms becomes of paramount importance. And the last thing you want to do is just play the "paralysis game", letting the wave do what it will with you!

Now I know the C-Dory isn't a surfboard or a sleek narrow displacement hull, but it seems to me if you're using an autopilot to steer an absolute straight course through following or quartering seas, you're "dead sticking" it, rather than delicately piloting the boat through the moving sea of energy waves.

I'm not trying to pick an argument here, but I know it's better to steer through this stuff than to point the boat and hold on.

We used to take the C-Dory out at Half Moon Bay below San Francisco and had to come in around the reef that stick out from Moss
Beach and generates the Mavericks surfing paradise in the winter.

Now we didn't go over the reef with the surfers in the 20-30 footers, but as we began to go down and around the reef, the swells became increasingly gentle as the wave faces spread out, and when they reached a reasonable level where I felt comfortable with it, we'd drive up over a big one and launch down and across the face for a ride. What I knew from small boats had instant application and my instincts were right.

Smaller swells and chop aren't much different, except that it's sometimes very hard to find a discernable pattern to make the steering task easy and one has to rely on the instincts developed in more uniform conditions to sense how to make the best use of the waves and, more importantly under these conditions, find the easiest path forward, much like going forward into confused seas.

I guess I really miss the swells and larger waves we used to experience before moving inland. Sometimes it was pretty scarry, but the adrenaline rush and thrills of staying upright and on the edge made for quite exhilarating rides. Still blowing 40 up in the Sound? Joe.