SPOT distress failure in Sailboat Aegean loss

Hunkydory · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject:

The posts about SPOT failure has me to some degree re thinking the decision I made to leave the Sat phone at home on the cruise we'er now on & at the same time wondering about the necessity of these devices. I think they could easily become relied on to the point of dependence where cruise preparation & personal responsibility takes a second seat to pushing a button to get out of trouble. At some point the lack of risk takes the adventure out of the adventure.

Jay

thataway · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject:

First, I think that SPOT is a great tool, and if it was not for SPOT, there would not even be a conversation as to what happened to Aegean. Fully agree that it is not a substitute for an EPRIB--and most folks agree with that. I think that the SPOT Connect or In Reach (by DeLorme) is an even better tool. On the other hand there are some real advances in the Sat Phones in the last year, which make them more attractive for messaging and phone calls. My Daughter is traveling in Japan, and she has a Japanese cell phone, her I phone and rented a Sat Phone.

SPOT has some limits as a tracking device--and part of that is battery power. I believe that there are previsions for 12 volt hookup on some models.

As for the battery replacement. I would say nonsense to the clerk who said that the battery life is less. In fact the batteries are smaller, lighter, and cheaper. This is one of the reasons that you can buy a new unit for $215 which is the size of a pack of cards.

I cannot address the shipping. Lithium batteries have gotten a bad rap. I am doing some investigation about using them on a C Dory--two friends have put them on RV's and one friend is building a solar catamaran which will use lithium ion batteries--different, but similar issues, as the PLB battery. That is a whole other subject.

I am also coming up on battery replacement time. All of these batteries have a shelf life of 11 years from date of manufacture (probably longer), but once in the PLB or EPRIB, there is a very small current draw. Testing also draws down the battery, as well as if you have to set it off. A good replacement center will completely go over the PLB?EPIRB first and if any problems not replace the battery. HOWEVER, the battery cost is somewhere in the $250 range. You can buy a new one for $215! It will be smaller and lighter, and have some other features. It will not have the connection to your boat GPS, if that is important. We will probably buy new ones, and keep the old to see how long they last!

As for EPIRB vs PLB. The PLB is registered to Marie and I. It is good when we are hiking, RVing or just traveling. We see it as a back up for cell phone/ham radio if we have an emergency and cannot summon help.

When we were crossing oceans we carried two EPRIB--one at the companionway, one in the life raft. Currently I would do the same, plus carry the two PLB.

For the C Dory, mostly coastal work--I think that the PLB is adequate, and in some ways better, because it can be on your person--lets say that you are hiking ashore in AK, and fall. The PLB is in your pocket and you can get help.

Battery life. The 24 hours is rated at -20C, so it will be considerably longer at most of our ambient temperatures. There is also a PLB Max by Fast Find which has a 48 hour battery. Fast Find also advertises some of their new units with a 6 year battery rather than 5 year. Yes, I think that 24 hours is plenty of time to get found. Since we carry two, then if we had a boating accident, we would only activate one, wait and if no rescue in 24 hours, then activate the second one . But I think the 48 hour life is far more important in the middle of the ocean than coastal cruising, even in remote areas.

Don and Brenda · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject:

I have an ACR Cat 1 Globalfix IPRO EPIRB that was a Christmas gift this year. My brother in law was concerned he might get stuck taking care of his sister again I guess. Fortunately as part of the package it came with a first aid kit and a certificate for a battery replacement. The current batt expired in 2017 and it is rated for 1 test per month and I think 24 hours continuous after that. There was a bunch of info on the shipping limitations. If I was doing a big trip I would also get the personal unit as they are getting so inexpensive these days.

Sunbeam · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject:

jlastofka · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: SPOT - and - PLB (EPIRB)

I carry a SPOT and a PLB (I think that's what you guys are calling an EPIRB, but I think the EPIRBs are attached to the boat and the PLBs are hand carried, although I might have that wrong).

Every time I've played with the SPOT, it's worked. That makes me feel like it might work when I need it. The PLB however, is an unknown. It's supposed to work, and if you need it, you'll use it, but there's no way to know that it's working. You can do a battery or system test once in a while, but you can't test the whole system all the way to reception like you can with the SPOT.

Something as important as the EPIRB / PLB system should have been designed with a once a month test window time or something like that where people could actually test them instead of trusting the manufacturer's quality control people and some rubber stamp certification.

thataway · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject:

Sorry for the blank post apparently I posted a broken link, and the whole message did not post.

There is a bit more difference between the EPRIB and PLB. The EPRIB is registered to a specific boat. The PLB is to a person. The EPRIB can be auto deploy by hydrostatic or moisture. There are two categories. The EPRIB does have a 48 hr battery.

The PLB can be taken boat to boat, to an airplane, (probably not a substitute for a locator beacon)--when you hike, camp, Ski etc. It only has a 24 hour battery at - 20 C--but actually will last longer, and is probably adequate for coastal and inland use. There are PLB which have 48 hour batteries if that is important.

We choose to carry two PLB with us at almost all times (boating, kayaking, hiking, camping, cross country driving etc). Each of us has one of these on our person when on the water, along with a hand held waterproof VHF radio.

There are some PLB which will send a simple message. Spot is specifically for tracking, as well as some units (connect) sending short messages.

There are ways to test the PLB

Here is a service which you can subscribe to which will test a PLB:

http://406link.com/

A ham operator can test the beacons, and I have tested ours yearly. They are at the 5 years battery replacement later this year. However because of technical advancements, we will replace the two, and keep the current ones as back ups.

There was also a program where Coast Guard Stations tested bacons--not sure if this is still in effect:

http://www.equipped.org/406testing.htm

There are also reviews of the Fast find at Equipt to survive:
http://www.equipped.com/McMurdoNewFastFind.htm

And the ACR

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=284

Panbo has a good review of the most recent ACR at:

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2012/03/the_smallest_plb_acr_resqlink_or_satro_plb-110.html

And another take on Spot and AquaLink at:

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2010/08/acr_aqualink_view_406link_hands_on.html

Don and Brenda · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject:

My EPIRB is an ACR model Cat 1 which means it has a hydrostatic self launch case, that being said I took it out of the case which means I would have to activate it manually, or as soon as it hits the water it will activate. It has a self test mode and is designed to be tested once a month, it will go thought it's self test mode and show you digitally in messages what it is testing. The battery life is 5 years with once a month testing and still give 48 hrs in signal mode. It is also linked to the GPS for a quicker first burst of lat/long info. It is registered to the boat or you could put it in your backpack, it is very lightweight. For hiking I would go the route that Bob does and use a PLB, they are lighter/less expensive. The products keep getting cheaper and better every year.

jlastofka · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: PLB testing

On my ACR unit, the self test is battery and internal system only. I don't think there's a way to send a test signal to the satellites and have some confirmation message returned from the internet. So in that regard there's no way to test the whole system, as can be done with the SPOT.

That's why I like having the SPOT in addition to the PLB. Hopefully if I really need help some day, at least one of the devices will do its job. And I do keep them with me in the car, truck, boats, and camping.

I was out in Death Valley one winter, driving around on a back road at night and getting low on fuel. I thought about the PLB in the trunk and it was comforting.

-Jeff

Sunbeam · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject:

There is a post on the Wavetrain blog (Charles Doane) this morning about the Aegean incident/U.S. Sailing final report preview. It includes information and photos showing that divers have found parts of the wreck on the bottom pretty much just below where the SPOT track ended at the island, and it also includes commentary and analysis by well-respected sailor, cruiser, and writer Evans Starzinger. It's an interesting read, and rather than try to summarize it in more detail here, I will post a link to it:

http://www.wavetrain.net/news-a-views/393-aegean-tragedy-us-sailing-final-report-preview

Sunbeam

Chris · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject:

The rest of the story:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Video-reveals-Answers-to-Aegean-Sailboat-Crash-167921875.html

BrentB · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject:

Sad story that 4 lost their lives
RIP

thataway · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject:

Good reading, and some real lessons to be heeded. We have done many tens of thousands of night sailing offshore, and always make sure that a person is standing watch. This person also charts the position at least once an hour.

It looks as if this debris is the boat which was lost. The point of inside or outside of the coronado Islands is made, but there is some fault there--in that the decision is made many miles north of N. Coronado, not just a few miles North. (from a several time winner of his class and second over all in the Ensenada race).

We have pruchased a Fast Find but will replace the battery in one of the ACR PLB. Remember that one of the failures here was not the SPOT, but that of the agency which should have initiated the search!

Sunbeam · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:27 am Post subject:

hardee · Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:48 am Post subject:

We used SPOT for 2 years on board SleepyC and also traveling on land. There were times that the tracking breadcrumbs did not get through, (a problem that was addressed in the update SPOT II, by it sending the current, plus the previous 2 GPS locations), and we had reception capability on board (phone with text message reception) and never had an issue with the messages, (check in OK), not getting through. We had no way to follow the track until we got home or to a place with I-net capability. The missing bread-crumbs were generally when driving and not having a good sky view. Tracking the boat was very regular and interesting.

That SPOT is gone now, and if I was going to replace it it would be with the updated SPOT II. The Spot Connect may be even more useful due to text message compatability but I believe it carries a higher annual fee for that service. IF I was going to carry a SAR initiation device it would be a GPIRB type -- GPS built in and outputs the GPS locating info in the first signal burst.

Barry (and others) are right. SPOT should not be the primary SAR initiation device, but it is a good tracking, I'm OK messaging, and peace of mind device.

Dr Bob is right, carry the PLB on person and carry a waterproof handheld VHF. If they (the hilo) is looking for you and you can talk to them you will be much easier to find. (Typical GPS fix is 30 feet to 30 yards. That could be 100 square feet to find a bobbing volleyball in a quarter of a city block of wind whipped white caps.)

Somedays we and they get lucky.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon