Kicker?

Pat Anderson · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject:

OK, a little Google research - why shouldn't I just order the Tohatsu 15 hp four stroke 20" shaft from these guys right now? Free shipping, no tax, $1,979 - how could I do better? Tohatsu warranty, guess I could get warranty service wherever they service Tohatsu outboards...

Sneaks · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:34 pm Post subject:

Pat, you can also get it serviced wherever Nissan outboards are serviced. The only difference between Nissan and Tohatsu in the smaller outboards is the decal.

Valkyrie · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject:

Another good thread with a lot of thoughtful information. We're getting a Honda 90 on our 22 and a Honda BF8A kicker.

Yes, modern four strokes are reliable and most dealers to whom I've talked mentioned that we don't need a second engine because that's what towing insurance, a VHF and a cell phone are for. Having been in the marine industry, also selling boats, I know that a lot of salesmen have very little practical experience when it comes to cruising or long term use of a boat.

In my sailing days, there were a number of situations where an engine had died on me and I was able to dock or anchor under sail. I personally don't have the inclication to rely on someone else to be there when I am in trouble. Also, those failures could come in remote areas or in times when others are also having trouble, putting us way down on the list.

In having a similar discussion with El and Bill via email, they mentioned that twice they had an engine fail in potentially life-threatening condtions. Their second 40 HP engine pulled them through.

Nick
Valkyrie

Bess-C · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject:

Pat,
I went through this same thought process and ended up putting a kicker on our 25 last year. I was in a narrow deep steep to channel in Clayoquot Sound in September of 2003. I didn't have a kicker and the thought occurred to me, what would I do if the main motor conked out. I was in current and wind, too deep to anchor, no other boats, and a limited chance for VHF reception. You aren't going to paddle a 25 to shore, so with no backup you are at the mercy of the current and wind.

I ended up having Les put a 15 Honda on the boat last spring. You've gotten a lot of good advice, some of it that would work for you. I do give the caution that Les had to put a lot of thought into this as it was the first 25 he'd put a kicker on. He works on boats every day and there were some issues to deal with, not dragging the motor when it is up and avoiding problems with the trim tabs being the most critical. He felt we had to go with a long shaft and a bracket. I went with a 15 hp long shaft, high thrust Honda. It has electric start and power tilt. I also added the Troll Master to allow attachment to the main motor and control from the helm. Regardless of which motor you choose I would recommend the Troll Master. It is easy to install and inexpensive. It allows you to steer and control speed from the helm. I don't think you really want to be away from your electronics and the view from the helm if you need to use the kicker in bad weather.

As someone else said on here, I don't think that you need the electric start (my motor has the manual start also and it is easy), or the power tilt. Those are just convenience options that cost extra. A basic two or four stroke 9.9 or 15 would work fine. But I would be very careful about buying a short shaft or no bracket. Les needed both the long shaft and the bracket to make the kicker work on my boat.

We plumbed the kicker so that it can run off of either the main tank or a 5 gallon tank that I have. I haven't had problems with bad gas but I have heard that it is one of the main things that can take down your main motor. If that happens I can plug the kicker into the 5 gallon tank and not have to worry about bad fuel.

It is an expensive option, but on a boat what isn't. It gives us the peace of mind of knowing that we can get back if our main gives out. It also functions as a trolling moter, but I use it less than I thought I would for fishing. I find that the 130 idles down low enough for the downrigger fishing that we do, so the 15 wasn't critical for fishing.
Lyle

Wheeler Dealer · Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:51 am Post subject:

Pat,

Good decision on getting a kicker Smile

.

Was headed out to the crabbing hole on the bay when we wrapped up in the line of a crab pot some idiot had left right in the middle of the channel. Would not have been so bad, but the tide was really moving and the wind was kicking up 3' waves. If we did not have the kicker we would have surely been blown into shore. I was able to cut the pot free and the kicker got us back to the dock as the main prop had been damaged.

Jon

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:59 am Post subject:

Jon-

Interesting story...glad you made it out of the "jam" ok!!!

Brings up an interesting point. Of the various possible problems that occur when you have a single engine and no kicker, the prop damage one of the most common. I'd guess the common problems to be in about this order of probability:

1. Dead battery(s).

2. Prop or lower end damage.

3. Gas contamination/fuel system problems.

4. Real engine running issues, overheating first, then electrical, and then mechanical.

I've probably left something* out, but my point is that if you're going to operate in dangerous areas due to wind, waves, tides, rocks, floating objects, etc., you can minimize your exposure to the these in the following ways (in numerical order).

1. Dual batteries, or better, AND carry a starter battery pack sufficient to start your outboards. I have one under the helm floor board with the charger connected into the 120 v system for automatic maintainance charging.

2. If you anticipate damage, not only carry a spare prop, but when operating in areas where you have high probability of collision with objects, use a stainless prop, as the prop will suffer less damage and usually be able to still propel you out of harms way until you can switch it. However, once you spin the rubber hub good, you may be limited to about 5-7 mph as the hub won't transfer any more power than that without slipping. But it's a lot better than having very little or no blades at all left!

3. Besides using Stabil, keeping the fuel system religiously inspected, and dumping the sediment traps on the Racors and engine itself, get a spare 2 1/2 or even 6 gallon can with the correct fitting for your engine and bypass the rest of the fuel system in an emergency. Put Stabil in the gas and rotate it every few months by dumping it in the main tanks and refilling.

4. Service your engine thoroughly. Obviously, a newer powerplant is more reliable than an older one. If I were operating in an area where sediment, plastic bags, or other harmful debris was a major concern, I'd look for a engine temperature gauge for my own observations, even though the engine has a protective warning and slow down system of its own. If you have an engine that is prone to fouling plugs, such as an older 2 cycle, keep a spare set of new ones and the wrench and any other tools necessary to change them. Not a bad idea for any engine, since you can't really see the plugs w/o removing them. Keep your Owner's Manual handy, and the Shop Manual if you have one.

AND don't forget to carry a sharp knife readily available just in case you snag a wayward crab pot, buoy line, or ???

At least there are some ways that we can minimize the perils of operating w/o a back up powerplant. Joe.

*steering and shift/throttle control problems, for instance...

Redƒox · Guest

I got bogged-down somewhere in the middle of this big thread, so here goes my two cents worth:

I have come to trust an electric-start about twice as much as as recoils (manual-start) Not just outboards but also snowmachines, snowblowers, chainsaws... (on and on Sad

) I've had lots of trouble with recoil start stuff Exclamation

Most electric-start kickers will charge the 'batts if they are too weak to start the main-engine Idea

I think of my 'Yami 8-hp Electric as another "back-up" electrical system.

Also: I get banged-up sometimes, and really appreciate not having to be yankin on a rope. Anybody ever accidentally popped an innocent bystander behind you, when reefin on that rope-start... Laughing

(Da-ooh

)

gotjm3 · Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject:

Hey Pat-

In little more than a month you'll get to see "C's the Day" with the 150 hp main with the 15 hp (regular=long) shaft on a bracket. If it's feasible to install your kicker after the main is rigged, you can feel free to have a run with our rig and see if you like it. Of course we are in the Chesapeake and one of our criteria is to run the boat from the stern so we can crab, but the back up motor feature is a big bonus to us as well as there is all sorts of flotsam and jetsom flowing from the Susquehanna that can ruin a prop in the upper Bay, and we have alot of shallow water too. I am not as worried about the main failing outright as I am having it be compromised, and having a back up prevents me having to run it and do expensive damage (potentially a lot more than $3000 worth) if it does have a problem. The extra, independent battery as Tyboo Mike states is not a bad thing either...

Choices, choices. Good luck!

Pat Anderson · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:22 am Post subject:

Thanks, TJ, Patty and I will be sure to check it out. Leaning to getting the Tohatsu 15 hp 20" shaft manual start - we will have three AGM batteries and a Honda 2000 generator plus a JumpStart onboard for crying out loud - and it will probably be on a stationary bracket just to be sure it clears the trim tabs. Will probably get a steering tie-bar as well. For us this is strictly for emergencies, main out of service for any of the reasons folks have listed in this thread. See you at Rock Hall (we are SO pumped about this trip!)

gljjr · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:05 pm Post subject:

Pat,

Before you take the plunge on a Tohatsu or Nissan locate a good service center for it. The biggest problem with those two motors is finding a dealer that services them. Since places like Boaters World and West Marine and GI Joes don't have service centers but do sell the motors that is what I would worry about the most.

Larry H · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject:

Pat,

You may already have this, but here is a link to the Tohatsu dealer finder.
If found 18 dealers within 100 miles of Cornet Bay.

Tohatsu dealer finder

Alyssa Jean · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject:

One of them is Les at EQ. Also one in Bellingham and one in Issaquah.

Sawdust · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:

Pat,

The old guy suggests you call Les, who has installed a bunch of these things. I just went down to look at Lyle's 25 -- sure like that installation. I know Tyboo Mike has a working kicker on the transom of his 25 - but Mike can make anything work. Les also hung one on the transom for Jammin' -- IMO the bracket makes a better installation. There are plusses and minuses to both ways... expensive to change!!

Dusty

gljjr · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject:

Another neat thing you can do if you use a bracket is to have one custom made of Aluminum that turns part of it into a sink. You then tap into the cooling system on the kicker to fill the sink with hot water. Very nice on those cold fishing days! This is done quite often now on Jet Sleds. It could also be used as a bait box if you had a pump and lid.

Byrdman · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:12 pm Post subject:

Pat... Wow... There is some great info on this thread. Now, I think once upon a time you have mentioned the Nordic Tug...trawler... Said that to add to an issue discussed with B and my Brother Mike heading up river in the Cumberland as Bill gave us the "geological skinny" on the rocks/cliffs we have been going past for years...and we too enjoy a nice 4-7 knot speed....just to slow down, enjoy the views....watch the animals...listen to some music or just the simple sounds of the environment, and hold a nice conversation....or just stair aimlessly in all directions...or...just take in the bright stars at night.... Now, I have no idea what kind of fuel mileage a 15hp kicker (4 stroke a must for me).. would get, but if you are like us...and enjoy the slower parts of life and boating combined... well... that kicker should add much quality. And,,, like mentioned above.... river fuel is often "of questionable quality", and real often in "off boating seasons", when we truly love our C-Dorys the most... I bet Bill and El even with the twin 40s, would have made a house note for you if they had on board an extra 5 gal can of "known good fuel" to power either the kicker...or dump into their mains...and saved them the clean up fees/troubles... 3 motors on a C-Dory... Ya gotta love moderation... Byrdman