Kicker?

[Pat Anderson]

OK, we were going to go with a single 150 and towing insurance on the new Daydream 25, no kicker...but LunaC Chris and Janet's tale of rescuing a SeaSport about to be washed onto the rocks disclosed the flaw in our plan. Even though none of our cars have left us stranded for the last 20 years or so, and the Honda is very reliable, it was made by man and therefore it can and will fail eventually, and when it does, we REALLY don't want to be dashed to pieces in the surf or on the rocks. So the need for a kicker is firmly implanted in our minds now.

But we don't really fish, so trolling is not an issue. We don't need it to get us home from some far away place. We don't need (I think) to be able to control it from the helm. What we need, it seems to me, is a kicker to get us out of trouble if the main motor conks out, and to get us to the closest safe cove until Vessel Assist arrives.

Soooo, (A) am I wrong about what I think I need a kicker for, and (2) how little kicker can I get away with for that purpose? How about a little 9.9 hp Tohatsu short shaft hung off a bracket? I think that is about half the price or less of the usual 15 hp Honda four stroke, all wired up and tied to the helm steering, etc. How little kicker can I get away with, or why will I be sorry if I don't spend the big bucks on the Honda BF15 and an EQ Marine install?

[Ron on Meander]

Pat,
For me, the added security of having a kicker is worth the price. I've haven't yet needed the kicker because the main quit, but it sure makes me feel more secure knowing its there and it runs well and can push the boat to 5-6 kts. IMHO If you do choose a kicker, don't cheap out. Go with something that can push the boat well and is easy to start and use. (not to mention looks good). The thing is though, its pretty unlikely that the kicker is going to be neccessary to prevent you from hitting the rocks if the main fails. Unless you run out of gas, in which case the kicker probably is out of gas as well if its plumbed to the main tank, you probably will have some warning that the engine is having problems. You also have the anchor which can hold you until help arrives and have the VHF to get help from good folks like Luna-C. If you aren't fishing and are mainly boating in areas with lots of other boats, the kicker probably isn't needed.
Ron

[stevej]

Pat 9.9 hp would be okay but sure a short shaft would work.

Think of it this way. In a bad situation such as staying off the rocks you could have wind, waves and current to contend with. Two things need to happen in a hurry if the main should quit. First the kicker needs to instantly start, second you need enough hp to overcome the elements heading you toward the rocks. So do you want a economical solution or one you know will work if things go wrong.

Steering controls are another matter it's tough to see over the roof from the tiller of the kicker but yet to find a good solution that will work with my OMC drop down bracket. In calm weather the main makes a good rudder and you can steer with it.

just some thoughts
stevej

[Larry H]

Pat,

Here's a question or three.

Are you going to be comfortable with calling on outside help if your main motor quits? And waiting for that help to arrive while drifting or anchored? Or do you want to be able to deal with your problem on your own?

If you carry a kicker, will you test start it each time you go boating? And if you don't start it each time, will it start when needed? If the kicker is a 2 stroke, how often will you replace the unused mixed gas in its tank?

[Pat Anderson]

Had a recommendation that sounds pretty good this morning on my ham radio net, from a guy who has a couple of sailboats. He says a 9.9 hp would push a 25 along just fine, not going to plane with either a 9.9 or a 15...he would get a Yamaha electric start four stroke with a separate fuel tank. Electric start four stroke means it is going to start when you need it to. I like the separate fuel tank, as Bill and El have experienced problems with water in the fuel, and that is why they have each motor on a separate tank. On the short shaft and bracket - that is what Jim put on the new Laurna Jo, and my thought is that this is the best combo to get the motor completely out of the water. Finally, if as SteveJ says, the main makes a good rudder for steering from the helm, then isn't this a good program all around?

[416rigby]

I think any single engined boat that ventures out into the ocean should have a kicker. I would never in a million years get an electric start kicker. When things go south, I want SIMPLE, seperate and reliable...that means rope start. If you lose electrical power, your kicker won't even make a good anchor...get a manual start. They are easy to get going. We just purchased a new Yamaha 4 stroke and it starts on the first pull. I would also go with a separate gas tank for the kicker...again, I want a totally seperate system for my back up. Just my 2 cents, but I fly on helicopters for a living, and back up stuff is a good idea!

[Phantom]

I played around with a short shaft kicker on a Bayliner 27 a few years ago. Slightly longer boat than a 25 CD, but narrower. Similar wetted area and weight. More V to the hull, though.

The kicker needs to have the cavitation plate and prop low enough to get a free flow of water off the bottom of the boat. I was not able to achieve that without almost submerging the power head. Any waves beyond a ripple threatened to douse the kicker.

If I raised it a bit, it cavitated because it was shielded by the transom.

A long shaft would have worked better.

As they say in the commercials, your experience may vary...Something to consider, though.

I'm going with the 150 and 15.

Don

[digger]

As above, the prop needs to be clear of the hull, especially if reverse is needed sometime. I'd say sizewise, 9.9 or more. If you don't think you're going to use it much, you could use a 2 stroke, to lighten the load you are carrying. They tend to be cheaper these days. However, I would match your main motor for continuity. I think pride in our boats would make my last comment a "MUST". Ron

That said, my honda kicker still looks ok alongside the yamaha main.

[My IRA]

Pat,

If you need a get-home motor only and wind,waves or current are not a concern, then any long shaft motor on a bracket should work. We fish our 25 off the Oregon coast and the extra displacement of the 15 Honda, extra long shaft, swinging a larger power thrust prop makes the difference for us. Control of the boat is effortless even in demanding conditions.

Be aware that the trim tabs on the 25 can interfere with the operation of a kicker mounted on the transom (you need an offset bracket, Mini-jacker is the brand we have, to clear the tabs). I would trust Les's advice given your needs, he seems to have a clear vision of what works best with these boats.

[Sawdust]

Pat,

Told this old story before, but I've come from Bamfield to Cornet Bay with a 26' Stamas (heavy boat) when the outdrive broke - powered by a 9.9 Honda (the old one, which is now the 8 HP Honda). That's nearly 200 miles... the new 9.9 would be better - either Yamaha or Honda - but I have mixed emotions about the electric. Of course you can rope start the electric, but if it isn't going to start manually, probably won't start on electric. BTDT.

The new 4-stroke kickers are kind of a PITA because you MUST start them quite often or they won't run! Also BTDT. That's why I use the "classic" 8 Honda. One pull, and away you go. A 9.9 with a separate tank, using Staybil (or some other stabilizer) is probably a good option. I don't have a kicker on C-Salt, but will hang one on if I'm going offshore.

HTH,

Dusty

[TyBoo]

Pat -

So many choices and so many reasons for all of them.....

The TyBoo has a Honda 15 electric with the extra long shaft that hangs right on the transom. I used it once through necessity right up there in your home waters when I lost the prop (or a chunk of it) on the main.

If I were buying a new one:

I would probably skip the electric start because it actually starts quicker with the rope. But since it's there, I have a dedicated battery for it that is not connected to the other batteries. I use an Optima sprial wound because it will sit for longer periods without losing much. I figure if I ever need a jump for the main, I can swap a cable to it in a jiffy. That's a help to the peace of mind.

I would get the 15hp again. It pushes the 25 around at about the same clip and with the same authority as the Honde 8 pushed the TyBoo22. It won't tow no waterskiers, but you know you got control of the boat.

I would get the extra long shaft again. By moving the stop pin up one hole, I was able to get the kicker to clear the larger trim tabs I put on. Even with it up a notch, there is still a whole bunch of it in the water and it always gets a bite. When tipped fully up, it completely clears the water. Remember that the transom on the 25 is closer to vertical than the 22, so the old "have to have a bracket to keep it out of the water when cruising" curse is lifted.

But that's just me, and I am by no means an authority on this boat stuff.

I don't use the kicker for trolling much because I am always in the river with its currents. But I can see me using it for some of the backwater sloughs and channels we plan to explore around here. The draft of the 25, while a little more than the 22, is still shallow enough to let you go to places where the big boats can't go. The big Honda has a bunch of itself in the water, but the kicker needs less.

[Larry H]

For convenience, having the kicker and main use the same fuel is great, especially if the kicker is used a lot for trolling, but for backup use only, a 2-stroke is lighter, smaller, and costs less.

I only use my kicker (8 hp 2-stroke) as a backup, so I keep a 2 gal gas tank of mixed fuel for it. If I need to use it for a longer run home, I carry quarts of 2-stroke oil so that I can add the oil to the gas in the main tanks and use the main motor gas hose. When the 2-stroke gas mix in the 2 gal tank gets old, I recycle it by using it in my van.

This system allows me to use a lighter, smaller, 2-stroke motor for backup and not get stuck with a 6 gal tank of old mix gas.

[CAVU]

Pat,
My experience with two smaller boats: using the big motor as a rudder just does not work unless there is no wind and waves. Any little disturbance will be more than you can overcome with the rudder effect. Another thought, if you ever do any near shore lolly-gagging along the kicker would be a good way to do it. Hook it up with a tie-bar, set an easy throttle speed and enjoy the scenery. Very quiet, saves hours on the big engine and insures that the kicker will work if you need it.

[Pat Anderson]

OK, cool - now we are going from a short shaft with a bracket to an extra-long shaft with no bracket - all I want is for it to clear the water when cruising with the main! If I can hang an XL shaft directly on the transom, rope start, separate fuel tank, with tie to main for steering, now THIS sounds like the way to go!

[TyBoo]

Choices, choices, choices..... The one on the left is the 15hp model.