Brass porthole install

[bmacpiper]

Good morning everyone,

The previous owner of my 22 gave me three portholes with it. One 8 inch circle, and two 5 inch circles, all from New Found Metals in PT. The 8 inch circle goes over the galley, he had the window there left off the hull when it was made. That one will be pretty straightforward. For the other two, he envisioned those going up in the cuddy cabin. Searching the archives, I see that most portholes have been installed on the upper section of the cuddy i.e. the curved smooth part. I am wondering if anyone has dared try to cut portholes down lower, where the strakes are? If so, can anyone provide insight on locating the holes, and installation?.

Also, I'm open to any good reasons why I should or should not attempt to put the portholes in any particular location, high or low.

Thanks all,
bmc

[Sunbeam]

I can give you some thoughts on putting the ports below the gunwale line. There are some sailing vessels that do that - oftentimes up in the V-berth area (where there may not be a choice if the v-berth is under a flush deck area that has no cabin sides).

If they are watertight, they do work fine. However... here are some potential downsides:

1) There will likely be more water (spray and green water) washing over them, which would make the bedding more important and more "tested" in every day operation.

2) If they are indeed portholes (which I think of as opening) and not deadlights (non-opening), then there is the risk of one being left open when getting underway (or in another situation where water might get in - I don't know if a large wake would do it). This can be mitigated by a careful routine, but humans being what they are it is still a risk. You could make up some sort of memory-jogger that you put by your engine start key or something every time you open the ports, to remind you to close them again.

Of course even if they are up in the cabinside you still want good bedding, and I'm guessing that on a boat as small as a 22, you would still want them dogged down when underway, but both factors are probably greater if they are installed in the topsides.

3) A few last thoughts: Might the cabinside location be nicer from an "inside" perspective for a few reasons? One, if you are at a dock you might have view of the world vs. of a fender or side of the dock (not sure on that because I have not had a chance to find out yet - maybe the topsides are high enough to make this a non-issue). Two, if you have a gear hammock or other stowage along the sides of the berth, that may block the port or cause you to lose out on a good stowage opportunity; that probably would not be the case with the cabinside. Three, could your bedding or an elbow wreak havoc on the screen? Four, would the metal/glass of the port provide more of a chance for condensation where your bedding would be vs. the hull.

[Sea Wolf]

Sunbeam-

Excellent, very throughly thought-out post! A+!

bmacpiper-

My CD-22 came with non-opening see-thru ports installed up near the bow and below the gunnels. (See photo below.) They are parallelogram in shape.

They don't leak (or never have), and appear to be installed with 3M 5200 or a like adhesive and screws. (Not thru-bolted because of the distortion of the curvature of the boat and the resultant mis-match between the inner and outer frames.)

The original owner installed them because he was "claustrophobic" in the v-berth.

They do provide some much needed light, and a reasonably nice view forward when in the v-berth, but I always sleep on the converted dinette, so the only real plus for me is the light provided when sorting out items stored up front.

I wouldn't add these ports myself if they weren't there (personal choice), but they haven't been a problem for me either. Also, I wouldn't install opening ports below the gunnels for the reasons Sunbeam states above.

You're probably looking for a "nautical" look with the round brass ones, but certainly everything also has to work on a practical basis.

Good Luck on whatever you decide!



Joe.

[Sunbeam]

I wanted to come back and add something that I remembered when I saw the thread title again. If the ports really are brass, then I would think twice about installing them vs. some other ones. That's because brass and salt water don't do well together. It might be acceptable in fresh water, but I still really think of brass as something I might use for a coat hook or a lamp belowdecks, but not for a "structural" piece of exterior boat hardware.

If they are actually bronze, well then you have a great material for exterior boat hardware

[bmacpiper]

Wow, great information guys! Thank you very much. I will check on whether they are bronze or brass, and we'll take it from there. The previous owner has a teak and brass or bronze theme going, so I'd like to use these if possible.

Best,
bmc

[ramos]

FWIW, I replaced four plastic portlights with four that I purchased from NFM's on a Pacific Seacraft Flicka. They were high quality bronze, and very low maintenance. Personally, I would keep them above deck level, if only for safety reasons.

[Captains Cat]

Joe, all the pix I've seen of your boat, I've never noticed those port lights. Very nice!

Charlie

[bmacpiper]

Called NFM, they are bronze portholes. She was awesome to talk to, by the way. She said that they could easily handle the pressure below the gunwale line, but that above the line probably makes more sense. Same reasons that you all have stated here. Thanks again, and I'll post pictures as I go.
bmc

[Sunbeam]

[thataway]

I have seen in hull ports glass broken by waves. Sunbeam makes valid points, which I agree with. Go with the cabin side, not the hull.

[bmacpiper]

Copy all the above. I did some investigation and it is going to be a very tight install. I think I'd better drag the boat up to NFM and have them take a look--especially given the thickness of the decks and all that, it will need to be just perfect to fit correctly above the line. Below would be nigh impossible with these portholes.

As an aside, the inner part of the porthole has a bronze "tube" (for lack of a better word) that passes through the hull and then fits through the bronze trim ring on the outside of the hull. This tube is fixed in place and in length. If the hull and teak trim ring are too skinny, some of this would stick out past the bronze trim ring on the outside of the boat, which seems like it would look strange. How is this dealt with? Is it ground off, etc.? If so, how does that affect the drippy/gutter thingy since it would be shortened?

On my 8" porthole over the galley, this would be very pronounced, since the fiberglass is so skinny right there.

b

[Sunbeam]

Typing on the phone here, so may not be too polished. At any rate, the part you are calling the "tube" is called a spigot. I can't get to the NFM website to take a look (Internet is down), but it may be possible to alter the spigot depth.

Alternatively, you may fit a sort of trim ring or pad that fits under the ports and extends out a bit past them to "thicken" the cabin side. Think of a picture frame or "doughnut" of sorts (or a wax toilet ring ). This could be wood (although splits/checks can be a problem), or, you could cut them out of GRP sheet and paint or gelcoat them to match the boat, for basically "inert" ones (could bond them to the boat).

If the difference between any curvature of the boat and the flat ports is no too great, you could use thickened epoxy to build up the boat (using the port, waxed or taped, as a mold).

One last thing, and this is purely opinion (and based only on an image in my head at that), but even though I really like bronze -- and have eschewed stainless as much as possible in favor of it on past boats -- I kind of wonder how it would look on a C-Dory. I just wonder if it might come off looking a bit "heavy" alongside the rest of the hardware/windows/etc. Note that they will darken and acquire patina as they age (which I consider a virtue and which is a protective outer layer). It is possible to keep them bright by polishing, lacquering, etc, but it's a bit of a commitment.

I think if it were me, I would mock them up in place somehow (maybe using the trim rings?), and see how I liked them - they may look fantastic and suit the boat well. But I would also potentially think about changing my mind if it didn't seem right.

For tips and photos of installations, you might want to check out some sailing-related websites, as this type of port is quite common, and many fiberglass sailboats are of an age where their ports are being replaced.

If you mock them up (or install them), it would be neat to see photos!

[bmacpiper]

I realize this morning, I need to figure out how thick the hull is in the cuddy area. Is it possible that one of you with existing ports could take a quick measurement for me? This would be roughly at the front edge of the windows, in the smooth upper portion of the cuddy cabin. The ports I have are standard, with a 1 1/2 inch spigot, and I'm not sure that will be long enough if I include the teak trim rings also.

On the 8 inch port, I have the opposite problem, with the thin fiberglass wall above the galley.

I'll see about mocking them up and taking a picture. The boat already has bronze in several locations, including the four sides cleats, and a very nicely made bollard style cleat upfront. Also the running lights were relocated onto handmade quarter boards up top, and these lights are also bronze.

b

[bmacpiper]

Here are some pics with the mockup, and showing some of the details on the boat. Doug did some really nice work. The bollard is probably strong enough to pick up the whole boat--multiple bolts, cross pins, etc.

[Sunbeam]

This is just a guess to tide you over until you get some actual data, but I would expect the cabinsides up forward to "just" be fiberglass, and thus not particularly thick (maybe 1/4" or so?). The reason I'm guessing that is because I don't see any reason why that particular (vertical, curved) surface would be cored (coring is usually used to give strength to horizontal or large/flat vertical areas).

Your new 22 sounds really interesting, with the bronze hardware, custom port areas, etc. Someone obviously put a lot of thought into customizing it.