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redbaronace
Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
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 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Pat Anderson wrote: | | Barry, I will leave the technical analysis to others, but as you know, we have two 100 watt solar panels on Daydream. I had no idea what was actually going on with the panels and my batteries until I installed the Victron Battery Monitor. This tracks voltage, state of charge (SOC) as a percentage of fully charged, amps flowing (in or out), and amp hours used. With 200 watts, there is a theoretical ~11 amps of current that might be going into the batteries (200 watts / 17 volts). In bright sunlight we saw a maximum of about 4-5 amps flowing in. In less favorable conditions it was frequently around 1 amp. When the ARB freezer cycled on, the amps dropped (netting out production against load) and in cloudy conditions usually went negative - the freezer was drawing more amps than the solar panels were producing. So I would not expect too much from a 20 watt panel! For us, the upside was that with brigh sunshine, the SOC charge recovereded fairly quickly, about 4 hours, even when we had consumed 20 amp hours overnight. So we think we are ready for Lake Powell! |
Barry
Do you have any photos of your solar setup? I tried looking at your albums, but did not see anything there.
Trying to get an idea of size, cost and complexity. |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3371
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I like the Renogy system. Their prices are much more reasonable than others. I would prefer two 50 watt panels instead of one big 100W panel (i.e. if the 100W was split lengthwise). I think that this would be easier to install on the CD22 given the lack of large open spaces. I would put one panel on each side of the center roof bump (outside the rails). This would leave the center clear to carry stuff. It is unlikely that whatever I carried on top would shade both panels at the same time. |
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 2154
City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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OK, charged both batteries to full charge yesterday using 10A 120V charger, cleaned up some old connections. All is well today; good sunlight, the panel is doing as expected, i.e. keeping the house bank up with little or no load. That is its sole function so a small 20W panel is adequate. Dredged up old memories and Ohm's law from more than half a century ago when I taught vacuum tube circuit design, did some calculations and I am happy. Thanks all for your thoughts, advice, and suggestions.
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Patti and Barry
formerly C-Cakes, now
rving around N. America |
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Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8553
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here are our two Renogy 100 watt panels on Daydream. Probably difficult to put on a CD22, you could probably put one on the roof but then where would you put the dinghy or kayaks?
| ssobol wrote: | | I like the Renogy system. Their prices are much more reasonable than others. I would prefer two 50 watt panels instead of one big 100W panel (i.e. if the 100W was split lengthwise). I think that this would be easier to install on the CD22 given the lack of large open spaces. I would put one panel on each side of the center roof bump (outside the rails). This would leave the center clear to carry stuff. It is unlikely that whatever I carried on top would shade both panels at the same time. |
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DAYDREAM - CD25 Cruiser
CRABBY LOU - CD16 Angler (sold 2020)
Pat & Patty Anderson, C-Brat #62!
http://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Barry,
What is the voltage with the solar panel in full sun--and then see what it does during the night. Inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks,
Bob
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| ssobol wrote: | | I would prefer two 50 watt panels instead of one big 100W panel (i.e. if the 100W was split lengthwise). I think that this would be easier to install on the CD22 given the lack of large open spaces. I would put one panel on each side of the center roof bump (outside the rails). |
Solarland's SLP 070 (formerly 065) is long and narrow (~13" x 58"). That said, I considered/measured with the idea of placing them where you say on the 22 and still felt it would be rather big/awkward for going forward. I think that instead I'll put panel(s) on the center of the roof. Yes, if I put a kayak up there they will be shaded, but I figure that would mostly be underway, when I have the engine alternator going - or at short term anchorages where I have enough power left over. For longer anchoring times I'd likely have the dinghy (kayak) down and so the panels would not be shaded. Granted all the locations are going to have their plusses and minusses. Another thought I had was a hard topped bimini with panels above, but, I think I like the option of folding the bimini... |
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rogerar
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 146
City/Region: SW FL
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Duck
Photos: Duck
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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THANKS for the info, I have been searching for a long time for narrow panels, also they are Marine Grade, I can get a pair shipped to FL for 500.00, plus a Dometic Freezer around 650.00, better start saving!
Roger |
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bcassal
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 193
City/Region: BLoomington
State or Province: IN
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Carpy
Photos: Carpy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I recently installed the Renogy 100 watt bendable panel on Carpy and am very pleased with it. It is about 43 x 21 inches and 1/8 inch thick!.
Pics in my album
Bruce
Carpy |
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Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8553
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
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If I did not already have the aluminum frame panels, I would get a couple of these Renogy bendable panels. More durable and easier to put on and take off, more mounting options for sure.
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 2154
City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Bob,
You asked for sun and night voltage output from the panel. With no load and at a 3' pigtail: Direct sun: 20.7V, bright overcast 19.02V, night (w/some ambient light) .59V. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat Anderson wrote: | | If I did not already have the aluminum frame panels, I would get a couple of these Renogy bendable panels. More durable and easier to put on and take off, more mounting options for sure. |
I'm not sure if the flexible panels AM Solar has been testing are the same exact ones, but they did not sound "good in the real world" yet to me based on their testing. Although it would be nice if they were! Here is what they found:
http://www.amsolar.com/home/amr/page_258_20/flexible_100_watt_solar_panel.html
We have had these on the roof of our RV since June of 2013. They are made with SunPower's back contact cells (like the ones we use in our GS100 solar panel). We used 3M VHB tape to hold them to the roof and that seems to work well so far. They worked very well during the summer months when the sun was high. However, we have noticed a fairly dramatic drop off in power with low angle sun during the winter and early morning/late afternoon sun angles when compared to the output of the glass/aluminum GS100.
The most serious problem we noticed was during a spell of 90 to 95 degree temperatures last summer. The thin covering over the cells (3mm thick) was not sufficient to keep the cells from "cupping". This, in essence, caused each cell to form a shallow bowl which collects dust that any moisture will push to the middle of the cell. When the water evaporates, there is a small circle of dried mud that blocks enough sun to cause a power loss.
Simply spraying them with a hose didn't completely remove that spot. I had to use a soft brush to scrub it off and then I noticed I was actually scratching the plastic surface of the panel (made from a UV resistant P.E.T. or "polyester"). Scratching the surface means less transparency which means less light hitting the cells which means loss of power.
Given that they scratch easily, have reduced output at off angles of the Sun, cupping cells from high heat and a limited 10 year warranty. We consider them "Not Ready for Prime Time". We are working on ways to address these problems and will offer them for sale when we have something we can heartily recommend.
Some sailing acquaintances are very happy with their Solbian brand flexible panels. They have zippers on them and zip right onto the top of their canvas bimini.... sweet! (Or you can use velcro or other means.) But they are extremely expensive (now) as compared to rigid panels.
There are also some "stick on like tape" type panels that sound pretty good; but you need yards and yards of them for the equivalent output as the rigid ones (again... now). Some folks I know with large Class A's (lots of roof) are using them. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know if this applies to the flexible solar panels, but I was cautioned on my RV panel to have it spaced at least 1/2" off the roof, to allow for air circulation and avoid excess heat build up. (Also allows you to wash under the panel.) The panels on a Bimini top would have that ventilation. It would also be less likely to be shaded--and might allow for sun orientation during the day to some degree. |
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bcassal
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 193
City/Region: BLoomington
State or Province: IN
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Carpy
Photos: Carpy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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My Renogy panel is sitting in the Hoosier sun with no issues so far. It is completely open underneath. I think an air space is a very good idea.
As far as the cost: My panel, controller and wire cost less than $250.
Carpy |
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Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 8553
City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:50 am Post subject: |
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If you notice from the photo, my Renogy aluminum frame panels are mounted on 1/2" "plastic wood" pieces that raise them off the wings, and allow air to circulate underneath. This was not by design but resulted from wanting a mounting system that allowed me to put them on and take them off easily. But I guess it is for the better!
Anyway, since I have them, I will stick with them, no reason to move to the bendable panels, it just seemed they offered some advantages - but maybe not.
Pricewise, my two Renogy 100 watt panels plus controller were $379, free shipping and no tax. Not much more for a few MC4 cables, probably spent about $20 on those. The wires back to the batteries from the controller are the same wires that used to power the Wallas. These are about the heaviest gauge wires going forward from the batteries. A very economical system, even considering the $158 for the Victron Battery Monitor, which I consider just about essential if you want to know what is really going on and are using your solar for more than just "topping off" charging.
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chriscarrera
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 96
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Carrera
Photos: Carrera
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Just took delivery of my Renogy 100w flexible panel, waiting for the genasun charge controller, then will install.
Looks like it will lay on the camper back right at the junction of the cabin top.
Not ideal but that is where it will go. Pics when I get it done.
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"Moore-on" Moore 24
"Carrera" 2006 Tomcat |
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