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Honda 50 hp trim/tilt not working
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mattk



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 15
City/Region: placerville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Honda 50 hp trim/tilt not working Reply with quote

Hello. I'm new to the C-Dory world having purchased a 1984 Angler 16 with a 30 hp Honda motor.
I recently bought a 1999 Honda 50 hp with a trim/tilt that doesn't work.
I can hear a click when I hit either the remote or local switch. But don't get any motor sounds, I've disconnected the 2 prong fitting that goes to the unit and applied 12v to both blue and green wires (with the other end grounded) but no sounds.
I bought the motor thinking I could use my existing CMC power trim unit but it is too small for the 50 hp. A new t/t unit costs $1300.
Any thoughts? Or sources for used units.
Thanks for any guidance. Matt
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Simplicity



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 219
City/Region: Chipley
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Simplicity
Photos: Simplicity
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt-
You might try rapping the motor a time or two. If it works it's the brushes wearing out. That's what happened on my Yamaha 40. Good luck.


Alan
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kennharriet



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 510
City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt, I had the same problem with the tilt motor on my Honda BF75. I ordered a new one online for under $300 and replaced it. Not a difficult project. Before replacing with new, I took it to an auto electric shop and they rebuilt it for $40, but it failed again in short order.

Let me know if you plan to replace yourself and I could walk you through it.

ken
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mattk



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 15
City/Region: placerville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,
Where did you find the new motor for $300? On Boats.net, a new unit costs $1300. Is there a preferred Honda parts source for C-Brats?
Matt
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kennharriet



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 510
City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All you should need is the Motor Assembly. I bought mine from Boats.net. I do not know what model your 1999 BF50 is, but if you look at the exploded view for the last model listed, you need item 3, Motor Assy, Power Tilt, $231.29.

When you are ready to replace, it will appear that the four bolts that the tilt motor are attached with are not accessible. All you need to do is remove a snap ring that attaches the lift piston, then rotate the motor inboard of the transom. This will allow you to easily access the bolts. Be sure to use waterproof connectors as you rewire the connections.

Hope this helps.
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mattk



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 15
City/Region: placerville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was extremely helpful. Thank you so much.
Matt
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Capital Sea



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 425
City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Capital Sea
Photos: Capital Sea
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I see posts from others more expert than me...BUT... my Honda 90 has a fuse between the tilt switch and pump. It corroded and prevented opperation. On the 90 at least, this was a 10 second fix.
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mattk



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 15
City/Region: placerville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll look for that fuse. That would be nice if that was it. Though I've put 12 v straight to the plug going to the pump and get nothing.
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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After I made sure there was no blown fuse, I'd be darned sure the motor was grounded properly, though that should be "automatic" / built-in from the mounting, but corrosion occurs.

Then I'd open the motor housing up and check the wiring inside, including the brushes and their length, continuity, and pressure on the armature commutator.

Then I'd pull out the armature and check the condition of the commutator surfaces, and then check the individual electromagnetic units for continuity with an Ohmmeter. There should be continuity between opposite segments of the copper commutator sections. The armature is actually a series of electromagnets arranged in a circular pattern that fits inside the field magnets and interacts with them to generate turning forces (torque).

I'm guessing that this is a PM (Permanent Magnet) motor, without field windings, but check to be sure. If there are any windings, check them for continuity.

In short, find the fault, and whether it can be corrected before buying a new unit for replacement. On 80% of the12 volt motors I've worked on of similar types, the problems are in 1) worn brushes that can be replaced and rough commutators than can be simply sanded smooth with emery paper, or 2) simply loose or corroded connections.

It never hurts to do a little detective work before opting for wholesale replacement of components, especially at marine goods prices. Plus the detective work makes you feel good (smart), instead of befuddled, again!

Good Luck!

Joe. Teeth Thumbs Up

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Lake Shasta, California

"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous
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kennharriet



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 510
City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of smart and talented folks on this forum. I was going to suggest trying to replace the brushes first, but see they cost almost as much as the entire motor assembly.
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mattk



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 15
City/Region: placerville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot of smart people in this group. I won't be back at my boat for a few days, but I will check for fuse, ground, motor continuity. Before ordering a new motor.
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mattk



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 15
City/Region: placerville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here's what I've found so far. There was no fuse in the circuit. The motor's ground was good. I removed the whole unit and opened up the motor housing. The motor was rusted and barely moved. I can replace the motor assembly for $231. But fear that something else may have caused the motor to fail in the first place. Perhaps a worn pump. In which case I'll have to chase down other parts. I'm thinking of going to a CMC jack/trim unit rated for 50 hp that costs $500 and being done with it.
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kennharriet



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 510
City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same thing in my case. Apparently moisture had entered the motor housing causing corrosion. It was obvious the o-ring seals had failed. I think the motor only drives the hydraulic pump, which cycles the lift rams. In other words, the motor is sealed from the hydraulic system. Just becuase the motor is bad, does not mean anything is wrong with the hydraulic system. I suggest that if there is no evidence of water intrusion in the hydraulic system, it should be fine.
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mattk



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 15
City/Region: placerville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased the motor and before hooking it up, I tested it with 12 v and it worked. Plugged it in on motor and it didn't. I tested the voltage coming out of the motor plug and didn't get any voltage. It clicks when the button is pushed but no 12 v coming out. I checked the two 15 amp fuses in the front of the engine. So I'm suspecting the switching relay.
I'm open to suggestions.
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kennharriet



Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 510
City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scratching my head... Is there continuity thru the switch when it is closed?
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