Liferafts

20dauntless · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: Liferafts

I'm considering buying a small inflatable liferaft for the C-Dory before I head to Alaska this summer. Is it total overkill to carry one of these? I'll be carrying an inflatable kayak with me as well, but it might not always be inflated. I also have a PLB attached to my life jacket as well as a strobe light, VHF and GPS.

My thought is that if something were to happen to cause the boat to sink rescue would be fairly quick. With PLB and SPOT distress signals and a mayday DSC call on the VHF, the relevant authorities should know precisely where I am and that I need help quickly, but it seems possible that they couldn't get me out of the water quickly enough given the cold NW waters. That means I'd need to be out of the water somehow or in an immersion suit. Is the kayak adequate or should I go with a liferaft or immersion suits?

Here are the liferafts I'm thinking about...thoughts?

Switlik MOM 600:
http://www.switlik.com/marine/mom600/
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C135%7C303330%7C1659053&id=1657815

Revere Coastal Compact 2:
http://www.reveresupply.com/revere_2010/5_coastal_compact.html
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C135%7C320549%7C81609%7C322480&id=904945

Merry Christmas!

Wandering Sagebrush · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject:

I think you might be better off with a small inflatable dinghy of some kind. Just keep it inflated on the cabin top, or tow if you want. I suspect that it would come in handier than a kayak and life raft.

20dauntless · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject:

I have a West Marine RU260 but I don't really like it. It doesn't row well and isn't much fun to use. The kayak, on the other hand, is fun to paddle around, is much faster, works well to get me from the boat to shore and is useful for sightseeing around anchorages, and it's much easier to handle when pulling onto the boat.

If there were more than two on the boat, pets, or lots of stuff to take back and forth from shore to the boat, the dinghy would work better. But kayaks are better when just two of us are aboard. That's my view anyway. Thanks for the thoughts though!

Larry H · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject:

In my opinion and experience, a ready-to-go inflatable might be best.

SE Alaska is a large place and the Coast Guard is spread pretty thin. You could easily be 100 miles from the nearest CG unit, and weather could preclude launching a helo.

Even with DSC, a voice call on VHF 16 might be better as it will alert any locals in your area. Alaskans depend more on other Alaskans than they do on the CG.

I would advise folks cruising SE Alaska to assume that they are 'on their own' and plan to deal with any emergencies themselves.

SEA3PO · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject:

I think Larry H is right on... I sure would rather have an inflatable...I once tried to get into a kayak in rough water and it was not going to happen...

Joel
SEA3PO

Wandering Sagebrush · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject:

Larry H · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject:

Here is an emergency tip folks might not think of:

If you are stranded on the shore with your dingy after an emergency you might want a fire for heat, drying out and to signal for help.

A handheld flare can be used to start a fire.

An outboard motor can also be used. Here's how.

Dip a piece of cloth in gasoline. Wrap the cloth around a stick. Disconnect all the spark plug wires. Hold (with a stick) the gas soaked cloth between a plug wire and the engine block. Crank the motor. The spark should ignite the gas soaked rag, which can be used to start a fire.

This advice is for 'emergencies' in a cool damp environment.
There is a chance you could get burned, or catch the gas in the motor on fire. BE CAREFUL, and consider the risks of starting a fire vs. sitting on a cold, wet, rock waving at a passing cruise ship.

Having a bail out bag with flares, both aerial and handheld is the best advice, but the above idea might save your life.

20dauntless · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject:

The other major problem with the RU260 is that I don't have a good way to store it inflated. My radar is mounted directly on the cabin top making it difficult to mount the dinghy on top. I've towed the dinghy close to 1000 miles and it's not that difficult but it does make entering marinas and anchorages a bit more complicated and can get hairy in rough and windy conditions. I can keep the dinghy stored deflated easily enough, but then it's not ready for emergencies. I've considered installing a radar arch to solve the dinghy storage problem, but that will permanently increase boat storage costs which I'm not keen to do.

The beauty of the inflatable liferaft is that it stores in a small space and inflates almost instantly. Additionally, with ballast bags it should be less likely to capsize than a small dinghy. And it will always be aboard the boat, even when just day cruising around the San Juans when I wouldn't otherwise have any dinghy.

Just trying to explain my thought process...I already have the dinghy so that's the cheapest solution, but I don't know if it's the best...

thataway · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject:

We have done a couple of hundred thousand miles offshore, without a life raft, unless it was mandated by a race committee. Too often if there is a real emergency it is difficult to get to the raft--unless it is carried on the cabin top--there it is susceptible to heat, cold, moisture, etc. Many of the rescue platforms are not as good as a dinghy. Any dinghy can be fitted with a C02 bottle for rapid inflation manually. I have seen many rafts which fail to deploy when inspected. The newer sealed rafts are better, but still need to be inspected regularly. Also carry at least 5 gallons of water, and some high calorie food in the survival gear.

How many C Dories have sunk? How many have capsized? What is the chance on the inland passage? The biggest danger is probably being run down by a ferry--and that is very very remote--and under this circumstance, you might not be able to use a life raft any way! Other boats I might be more inclined toward a raft.

We have relied on an inflatable dinghy. You can put the RU 260 over the radar dome if necessary.

Also have a good ditch bag ready by your side, or in the kayak if you go ashore--we have published the content in the past, but it includes items which operate on AA batteries--strobe, flashlight, vhf radio, GPS, PLB, matches, multi tool, good knife, flares, some tools, fishing gear, and first aid gear. When anywhere other than Canada, we have a .22 Mag 5 shot North American Arms revolver, with both solid point, Hollow pt and snake shot shells, as a survival arm.

If you have fear about hypothermia--then a survival suit. In our 5 plus summers in AK we have never had any situation where we felt in danger.

Again, this is a personal decision of degree of risk.

kevin ware · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: liferaft

Retriever:

Particularly when going to Alaska, for reasons of safety and convenience in getting ashore, you will be much better off carrying a zodiac style dinghy, which is kept permanently inflated and carried on your C-D roof.

In looking at your boat photo I see the radar antenna is mounted forward, so you will need to keep the dinghy on the aft end of the cabin roof. This is not all bad, in that the dinghy in that location will also provide some shelter from rain. And, you will see a lot of that when going to AK.

We have made multiple trips up there in different sized vessels with different dinghys available. We found that a dinghy that is very light (you should be able to lift it aboard by yourself), very rugged and always ready to go to be the best solution. If you need to inflate it every time, it will not be very useful in an emergency, and you will skip some potentially interesting shore excursions because of the trouble.

At one point we owned and lived aboard a Nordhavn 46, on which we carried both an aluminum 10 foot shore boat, and also a 7 ft. zodiac. It was the zodiac we used all the time, and we liked it so much that when we sold our the Nordhavn, we kept that small dinghy and let the larger aluminum one go with the sale.

When we purchased a CD TC 25.5 it came with an Alaska brand 7 foot inflatable with outboard, which the rather experienced previous owner also had mounted on the roof. So, now I have two.

If you are interested, I will sell you my spare one. It is white in color, is in very good condition and is located in Mount Vernon, WA.

Kevin Ware
Nordhavn 46
SeaSport 24
C-D Tom Cat 25.5

20dauntless · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject:

Bob, where can I get CO2 bottles for an inflatable?

Kevin, I've owned and used several Zodiac style inflatables. From a safety standpoint, I understand why an inflated Zodiac is good. I also understand that it's necessary to move people and gear from the boat to shore and back.

But since there won't be more than two people on the C-Dory and there won't be any pets, why is a Zodiac like inflatable better than two kayaks? The kayaks are easier to haul on and off the boat, more fun to use, great for getting from the boat to shore, and easy to haul up the beach. Having used both kayaks and inflatable dinghys in the past, each has advantages, but for my planned use I think the kayaks win, but I could be convinced otherwise.

If I can find a way to get CO2 tanks for the RU260 I'll probably carry it as a liferaft and it may come I handy other times. I definitely want the kayaks with me for day to day use but I'm not sure they'd be adequate in an emergency.

Thanks all for the info.

Wandering Sagebrush · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject:

I have to disagree with Wandering Sagebrush. To use a Scuba tank is a bit of overkill. The C O 2 bottle I used for our 13 foot Heavy Duty Achillies was about 14" long and about 5" in diameter. I had it refilled several times--just to be sure it was full. Any fire extinguisher or welding supply shop can refill--and it is not at all expensive. I made an adaptor, using the rubber tip for a foot pump and securing this to the hand output valve of the C O 2 bottle. My recollection is that the CO2 bottle was 5 lbs--and that is about 20 cubic feet of gas (enough for several inflatables). These CO2 bottles are available thru beverage distributers (think beer kegs), welding gas supplies, fire extinguisher shops and fire extinguisher shops. New bottles filled run in the $50 range. A lot cheaper than a life raft.

I happen to like an inflatable--and we used a 6 1/2 foot AX 3 for several AK trips--it was a bit cramped with two of us and the dog--but very do-able.
On the other hand, since they have the Kayaks-I can see for this trip that would be more than satisfactory. As I pointed out in the past-commercial fishing boats are more likely to sink than C Dorys. (more thru hulls, have to go out in any conditions, often take risks, not as good maintenance etc)

Hunkydory · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:31 am Post subject:

I agree with Bob in the liferaft or RU260 not being a necessity. On our first two SE Alaska cruises we did carry a RU260 on top, only took it off the top once. Even though it was mounted on the top & inflated, found it a hassle to use & not worth the effort for shore access. We became very good at taking the CD22 to shore in many different conditions & places. On our last two cruises in 2007 & 2010 both written about in the Grand Adventure Forum, we left the RU260 behind & towed our Mokai a motorized kayak & found it to be the cats meow for us. With plans as you have described, my advise is to leave the RU260 at home & not purchase a liferaft, instead just use & enjoy your kayaks.

Jay

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:18 am Post subject:

You knew this was coming. You might consider the Portland Pudgy if you are looking for lifeboat service and dinghy service as well. You can tow it nearly anywhere fast or slow in conditions you won't find comfortable in your C-Dory. It also rows well or can take a small outboard. I can tell you loads more if you want to know. I also happen to have a used one for sale down in the south sound and could make you a far better deal than new!

Greg