The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

How about...a Marinaut 25?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All Marinauts, All The Time
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Les. I agree with you on the weight and complexity issues, but where are you going to put all the thing that are under the floor of the c25 now?

The one draw back of the cape cruiser 26 was the lack of storage space in the cabin. By using a single level floor thru out the boat the storage capacity of the boat was reduced enough that I did not want the boat. In the case of the cc26, from memory several years ago, the holding tank had to be placed under the aft dinette seat. the water heater took up most of the half sized closet. This left far less room then the cd25 for storage.

Now you are going to place the fuel in the side tanks and most likely not have hot water(?). You can also get rid of the holding tank by using a composite head. You will gain storage in the area of the deck that the fuel tanks are in a 22 but is that enough?

_________________
Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dora~Jean



Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 1501
City/Region: Simi Valley
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Dora~Jean
Photos: Dora~Jean
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion on raised cockpit or not. I have always liked my boat with the raised cockpit, or rather, it seemed I liked it. Reading others' comments, now I'm not so sure.

PROS:
1) Self-bailing (mostly). Love the 'inherent' feeling that if the engine(s) quit in big seas/wind and the boat turns tail to the seas/wind like it does, that if I get pooped, I'll have a chance to survive as most runs out (slowly) and the bilge pump handles the leakage under the deck. Also, just due to the raised deck, there is less area/volume to fill before it spills out the outboard well. This is a very small percentage chance of this happening though.

2) Self-bailing. I/we prefer to take sun-showers in the cockpit with the water running overboard rather than deal with the shower, sealing the door, wetting the bathroom interior, shower sump pump, etc.

3) Storage under. I keep my stern anchor and rode, manual emergency bailing pump, extra oil (engine, 2-cycle for dink motor, steering), rope, hose, small bucket, flushing mouse ears, misc.

CONS:
1) I hit my head regularly along with some of the passengers getting in/out of the cabin due to the step down. Foam may get implemented.

2) Bilge pump. Due to the inherent leakage of the locker lids, I have to freshwater flush the aft bilge pump every trip, or it will fail within a year. Plus manually pump and sponge out any water that got in there.

3) Small amounts of standing saltwater in the under compartments cause mildew and mold on the ropes and equipment stored under. I'd just as soon have storage bins above deck if there was no storage.

4) Access to the gas tank, someday it may need service. I already have cut another porthole to access the tank inlet/vent fittings to periodically check.

5) I'll list the shorter sides in the cockpit as a negative, although I haven't found them to be a problem in the 8 yrs I've been running the boat.

This is probably not a complete list, but in summary, about the only significant PRO for me is the ability to take sun showers on the deck. The CONs seem to outweigh the PROs slightly. Surprising.

_________________
Steve
"Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance" (Samuel Johnson)
Dora~Jean C-Dory 25 2002-Present
Corsair F-31 Trimaran 1996-2002
MacGregor 26X 1988-1996
Glaspar Seafair Sedan 18 (2)
StarCraft 19 & 22
Catalina 17 & 22
Crestliner 19
+4 Previous, 1/2 sail, 1/2 power
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Les Lampman
Dealer


Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

starcrafttom wrote:
Les. I agree with you on the weight and complexity issues, but where are you going to put all the thing that are under the floor of the c25 now?

The one draw back of the cape cruiser 26 was the lack of storage space in the cabin. By using a single level floor thru out the boat the storage capacity of the boat was reduced enough that I did not want the boat. In the case of the cc26, from memory several years ago, the holding tank had to be placed under the aft dinette seat. the water heater took up most of the half sized closet. This left far less room then the cd25 for storage.

Now you are going to place the fuel in the side tanks and most likely not have hot water(?). You can also get rid of the holding tank by using a composite head. You will gain storage in the area of the deck that the fuel tanks are in a 22 but is that enough?


As to storage...I'm not sure that's an answer I can provide. Right now we've got a Marinaut 215 out on a cruise; they shipped all their cooking and personal stuff from home then purchased a couple of sleeping bags and a mattress topper, then purchased a couple of chairs and a cooler, and finally groceries and whatnot. They've been aboard the boat for about 11 days now and will be out another week. When I was aboard over the weekend they had everything put away and had room for at least as much more as they had shipped out. So the real question is how much is enough, and that's really up to the folks on the boat.

I could easily live in my Roadtrek 190; it's got plenty of storage for all the clothes I own, plenty of food, and hobby stuff. Adding my wife to the mix means we're living in a 34' motorhome instead, and she still occasionally mentions wanting a bit more room. Crook

There's not much under the deck of the CD25 that counts for much, just fuel for most of them; there were a few with waste tanks before CD went to the Traveler head with the built-in tank. The Marinaut fuel tanks will be saddle tanks on the side and we can use the Traveler head with the built-in tank or an Air Head. I suppose if folks really want a larger waste tank we can make a space for it in a molded in locker in the cockpit deck. Rather than just putting it under the "floor pan" I'd be inclined to mold a space into the floor pan to accommodate the waste tank with a sealed removable panel over it.

As I recall the water heater in the CD25 and the Tomcat are under the dinette seats (the one in the RF-246 is under the co-pilot seat) so they all take up some space. In the Marinaut I'd like to get it under the galley on an upper shelf (out under the side deck) to take advantage of typically unused space, and to put it closer to the galley sink and shower controls (and that location would make it easier to drain for the winter).

_________________
Les

www.marinautboats.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Matt Gurnsey
Dealer


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 1532
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
Photos: Kitsap Marina
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as hot wtaer- if not needing a shower, the 23 Venture hat an insta hot water heater and it seemed a good solution that took up minimal space.
_________________
Matt Gurnsey
Kitsap Marina
www.kitsapmarina.com
360-895-2193
(888) 293-7991
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Les Lampman
Dealer


Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Gurnsey wrote:
As far as hot wtaer- if not needing a shower, the 23 Venture hat an insta hot water heater and it seemed a good solution that took up minimal space.


Thanks Matt!

Les
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Will-C



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2476
City/Region: Temple
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Will-C
Photos: Will-C
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: How about...a Marinaut 25? Reply with quote

Ok, forget the 27' with the extra elbow room,generator compartment and the self bailing cockpit, room for six in the cockpit. (I liked the big cadillac comment). But really, not to be a wise guy but if a 215 is 60 or 70k what is going to be the redeeming factor about a 25' boat that is going to make the guys with the older Toyota's and Jeep Cherokee's want to drop 100k on a the new 25 boat over what you already offer with the 215? A separate compartment for a portapottie and a larger chain locker? I mean why the bigger heavier boat. Want a simple and light well built and designed boat? You already have it. What is going to set the new 25 apart from the 215 and make it worth another 30K. A fold out 4 person dinette? Or the fact that it will be the lightest simplist 25'boat that draws less,cheapest 25' to run period, runs ecomonically with a 135 hp Honda max? Just wondering?
D.D.

_________________
Chevrolet The Heart Beat Of America
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7878
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The separate head> worth every dam penny it cost me. I love it love it love it. I hate having to do my business right next to where I sleep and eat ( the walk way or back deck) almost as much as I hate moving the porta potty around. I hate moving it only 1/4 as much as having to stop everything (fishing, eating reading driving) while my wife or fishing buddy has to use the dam thing in the walk way or back deck. Its worth it for just that alone. And before someone tells me" but bill and el and their 20 grandchildren do it" I just have to say the I like then all ( the 20 grands kids Wink included) a lot, great people. but they are bat sh Smile crazy, nice people but crazy.

separate head=comfort and privacy. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Alyssa Jean



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2375
City/Region: Guemes Is.(Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Alyssa Jean
Photos: Anna Leigh and Alyssa Jean
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In your discussion on where to put the cold water heater...
Quote:
I'd like to get it under the galley on an upper shelf (out under the side deck) to take advantage of typically unused space, and to put it closer to the galley sink and shower controls (and that location would make it easier to drain for the winter).


The biggest advantage I see to having it under the galley is almost immediate hot water and not as much waste waiting for it.

_________________
David and Kate

Alyssa Jean 16 Angler
Anna Leigh 22 Cruiser Sold 2005
Anna Leigh 25 Cruiser Sold 2014

K7KJR C-Brats #51
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Les Lampman
Dealer


Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: How about...a Marinaut 25? Reply with quote

Will-C wrote:
Ok, forget the 27' with the extra elbow room,generator compartment and the self bailing cockpit, room for six in the cockpit. (I liked the big cadillac comment). But really, not to be a wise guy but if a 215 is 60 or 70k what is going to be the redeeming factor about a 25' boat that is going to make the guys with the older Toyota's and Jeep Cherokee's want to drop 100k on a the new 25 boat over what you already offer with the 215? A separate compartment for a portapottie and a larger chain locker? I mean why the bigger heavier boat. Want a simple and light well built and designed boat? You already have it. What is going to set the new 25 apart from the 215 and make it worth another 30K. A fold out 4 person dinette? Or the fact that it will be the lightest simplist 25'boat that draws less,cheapest 25' to run period, runs ecomonically with a 135 hp Honda max? Just wondering?
D.D.


Honestly, these are great questions.

The base price difference between the boats should be about $15,000. For that you get a boat that is 3.5' longer, has a 6" wider beam (beam counts more than length), has a lot more room inside & in the cockpit, has a 6' 6" v-berth, has a 4-person dinette, and has the all important head compartment.

I don't know with any certainty just what the $15K would encompass with regard to equipment. I know the hull shell is going to cost more to fabricate, I know the windows are going to cost a bit more, I know the fuel tanks are going to cost a bit more, and I know the interior will cost a bit more to build. I know we'll have to use SeaStar steering rather than BayStar steering. Based on some preliminary figures it seems we may be able to offer a Marinaut 25 equipped much the same as the 215 for that $15K more.

The buyer would likely spend a bit more on the engine, purchasing a BF150 rather than a BF115 (~$2900 difference) but could also choose a BF200 (~$6800 more).

The buyer would spend more on the trailer (~$1500).

If we're going for the lightest M25 then it's likely the engine of choice would be the BF150. Based on that and the extra cost of the trailer we'd now have a difference of $19,400 between the M25 and the M215, so call it $20K. Still you've got a much larger boat (volumetrically in particular), the enclosed head, more space for friends & family, more storage for longer trips, and more personal space for those that need it.

For those buyers who want more we can outfit the M25 with a shower, shore power, and all the finer things in life. If that buyer added another $10,000 in options the difference would then be in the neighborhood of $30K but they would have added quite a lot to the boat...things that aren't on the 215.

[A note here: we can equip the Marinaut boats with any engine make, I'm using the Honda engines in my example because I'm most familiar with them and have pricing at hand.]

It's not so much a matter of trying to make the 25 work with older trucks in particular; the example for that was the Tundra because the tow rating changed from 7,200 pounds to 10,000 pounds which is significant. But even a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee has a tow rating of 5,000 pounds with the V-6 and 7,400 pounds with the V-8. Towing a 25 with the V-6 is probably marginal and questionable but with the V-8 a Marinaut 25 would be towable while a CD25 is not (usually) and a Marinaut 27 would also likely be out of the question. A new F-150 with the V-6 EcoBoost is in much the same position; it will work for a Marinaut 25, maybe for the C-Dory 25 (it's right on the edge), and not for a Marinaut 27.

I'm pretty sure as fuel prices continue to rise that: 1) folks will choose lighter, more efficient boats, and 2) they'll choose lighter, more efficient tow vehicles. What's not to like about a full-size truck that can easily tow a Marinaut 25 and still give you 23 mpg on the highway when you're not towing? You can't do that with a V-8 powered truck which would be necessary to tow a CD25 or M27.

No matter how you look at it a 27-footer is going to cost more to build, use a larger main engine, and will be heavier (due to the boat, the motor, and the trailer). My estimate is that it would take about $10,000 more to build an M27 over an M25. You'd almost certainly use a 200 if not a 225, which will add $4,000 (BF200) to $5,100 (BF225) over the BF150. The trailer would run about $1,000 more. So, given the same level of outfitting the M27 would run about $15,000 to $16,000 more than the Marinaut 25. Compared to the Marinaut 215 the Marinaut 27 would run $35,000 or so more; that's a big jump. And the 27 would definitely require a heavy duty tow vehicle.

We've sold a lot of $100,000 boats over the years and I've found just because someone is willing to spend that for their boat doesn't mean that they also want to purchase a new tow vehicle to go along with it. Folks that already own a perfectly good Yukon XL, or Grand Cherokee, or F150, or whatever often would very much like to purchase a boat they can tow with what they already have rather than having to purchase a new tow rig.

Looking at the numbers I've presented here it makes a lot of sense to me to have $15,000 to $20,000 steps in the line (from the M215 to the M25, from the M25 to the M27) than to have one large $40K jump. It's probably more than that really since folks with larger boats tend to add more to them.

I can hear the conversation on the M27 now:

"What do I get when I go from the M25 to the M27?"
"A longer cockpit."
"You mean I'm paying $20K for a longer cockpit?"
"Yes."
"Why would anyone do that?"

Sort of echoes the conversation between the CD22 and CD25 when we sold them, the punch line being: "I'm paying how much for that head?"

The truth is folks want what they want. Everyone comes to the table with a unique background and a particular set of needs. If it requires an enclosed head compartment on the boat to get your mate to get involved in boating and you can afford what it costs to make that happen, you spend the money. There really isn't any need for "justification", you just do what's necessary to make the situation work for your particular needs. The same will be true for the larger cockpit; some folks won't get it, some won't be happy without it.

Les


Last edited by Les Lampman on Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Les Lampman
Dealer


Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anna Leigh wrote:
In your discussion on where to put the cold water heater...
Quote:
I'd like to get it under the galley on an upper shelf (out under the side deck) to take advantage of typically unused space, and to put it closer to the galley sink and shower controls (and that location would make it easier to drain for the winter).


The biggest advantage I see to having it under the galley is almost immediate hot water and not as much waste waiting for it.


Exactly!

Les
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Will-C



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2476
City/Region: Temple
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Will-C
Photos: Will-C
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject: How about...a Marinaut 25? Reply with quote

I know whatever you decide build it will be something that will make everyone proud. For me the one thing that you said about people spending more to outfit bigger boats seemed be something worth thinking about. My thinking is whoever can afford the 25 could afford the 27. If they are not going to just tow down to the local launch ramp a diesel pickup would seem to be more in order. They sell used diesel pickup trucks. Wink My thought to skip the 25 was to build the lightest,most well thought out, the most economical 27' to power and run. A 27' boat would be more attractive for most longer range cruisers, more room for amenities that you could provide (more dollars) It's a given that 200K is what it takes for a fully equipped 27' Ranger Tug on wheels which is the largest realistically trailable boat that Ranger makes. This boat for some is a perfect looper boat. In my opinion, a sharp guy like your self building a new 27' boat makes a Ranger Tug/Cutter seem like an easy target. Your boat could be faster,lighter to tow, cheaper to buy. Still with all that it seems to give the builder some breathing room say you tricked out 27 sells for 50k less. Shocked For me if I was going to move up I'd think more about a 27 than 25. I mean why would change to gain to gain two and a half feet? I already have the diesel pickup and look forward to becoming a looper. My 23' is fine for me,but you never know when someone would get that 4' itch. Good luck to whatever you build. Thumbs Up
D.D.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cbgale



Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 123
City/Region: Calumet
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Raton
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The kind of head you need is where your head is. They are all ok. But last night, a balmy 73F on Lake Superior, using the porta potti at 2am in the cockpit, looking at the millions of stars in the clear sky with the nearly full moon, ...... just doesn't get any better than that. I would have missed all that inside.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DaveS



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 3204
City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbgale wrote:
.... using the porta potti at 2am in the cockpit, looking at the millions of stars in the clear sky with the nearly full moon, ......


Two "full moon"s.....gotta love it! Laughing

_________________
Dave S.
"Sea Shift"
C-Brat #16
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
localboy



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4656
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveS wrote:
cbgale wrote:
.... using the porta potti at 2am in the cockpit, looking at the millions of stars in the clear sky with the nearly full moon, ......


Two "full moon"s.....gotta love it! Laughing


Embarassed Wink

And peeing outdoors in winter would result in serious "shrinkage". Shocked Embarassed

_________________
"We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Les Lampman
Dealer


Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: How about...a Marinaut 25? Reply with quote

Will-C wrote:
I know whatever you decide build it will be something that will make everyone proud. For me the one thing that you said about people spending more to outfit bigger boats seemed be something worth thinking about. My thinking is whoever can afford the 25 could afford the 27. If they are not going to just tow down to the local launch ramp a diesel pickup would seem to be more in order. They sell used diesel pickup trucks. Wink My thought to skip the 25 was to build the lightest,most well thought out, the most economical 27' to power and run. A 27' boat would be more attractive for most longer range cruisers, more room for amenities that you could provide (more dollars) It's a given that 200K is what it takes for a fully equipped 27' Ranger Tug on wheels which is the largest realistically trailable boat that Ranger makes. This boat for some is a perfect looper boat. In my opinion, a sharp guy like your self building a new 27' boat makes a Ranger Tug/Cutter seem like an easy target. Your boat could be faster,lighter to tow, cheaper to buy. Still with all that it seems to give the builder some breathing room say you tricked out 27 sells for 50k less. Shocked For me if I was going to move up I'd think more about a 27 than 25. I mean why would change to gain to gain two and a half feet? I already have the diesel pickup and look forward to becoming a looper. My 23' is fine for me,but you never know when someone would get that 4' itch. Good luck to whatever you build. Thumbs Up
D.D.


Thanks for all your posts, they've been helpful and appreciated.

Les
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All Marinauts, All The Time All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 8 of 9

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.1303s (PHP: 83% - SQL: 17%) - SQL queries: 33 - GZIP disabled - Debug on