How about...a Marinaut 25?

[Beflyguy]

[thataway]

Although one can have a settee/table arrangement--the 3 sided seating is difficult in the space which is available. You have to have a slanted back for the settee/and head room--the Tom Cat, or any other boat that size just does not allow for that. It ends up to be uncomfortable, if you get the seat back too close to the side deck/cabin house--and thus loose some of the room.

I also would like to see 4 foot wide dinette, but agree that it is very difficult--I would consider the head on the same side as the dinette, and make the galley narrower if necessary. With the head to Port, you can make it wider, and a better shower, and more room. Bring the helm seat out to the 2 foot width as necessary. The storage area, could be part of galley counter--and give both a better shower and dinette that way. (Galley counter goes all of the way form the folded down helm seat aft. You can design a "jog" to the port just aft of the helm seat--and forward of the dinette, to give more room there.

I think that there is a target group who has the desire to sleep two children and the narrow dinette is an issue. I have owned both narrow and wide isles, and like the idea of a fold down end of table/dinette.

As for visibility aft--just not necessary; There is a clear door, there is visibility thru the one window-especially if the stb side is low. I agree many trucks and RV's I drive have no visibility aft except side mirrors--boats don't have that. If essential: then a couple of hundred bucks and get a video camera!

Price--big point at $100,000 (plus taxes etc)--I personally think it will be some time until we find increased discretionary spending. The Rangers are successful, since they are getting folks who would have been buying a larger trawler.

Weight--again a big issue. The issue is both towing weight and fuel economy. Fuel will remain expensive. One can make boats much lighter, using cored materials. The cost can be not much more. Consider Nida core or other light materials--perhaps pre molded panels to get the weight down. The Decaboard is heavy.

I think that 100 gallons of fuel is minimal for this size bI a 150--unless the efficiency is far greater than the C Dory 25. The problem is not the "light boat"--but the boat loaded for cruising. I figure that 200 mile range when loaded for a month is almost essential for most areas to be very comfortable.

Water--40 gallons is plenty--I did a Transpac with 10 crew--15 days and 50 gallons of water--we had some left over. There are many ways to conserve water. We did lots of Mexico trips with 20 to 40 gallons of water
The extra expense and plumbing of dock side hook up is not worth it. I have had boats up to 62 feet with no dock side water--and 25 foot boats with dock side water--never used it.

Water heater--consider building in a 2 to 3 gallon tank, which will run on an EU 1000 or EU 2000 Honda. The 6 gallon tanks are large and heavy. Plus take up storage space.

[KickerDRB]

Les,

First and foremost, Wow what a great job on the Marinaut 215. You can tell from the build quality and design that there were a lot of great ideas in the works for quite some time. When I bought our 22 I looked at a 25 and was less than excited. Mainly because it did not feel that much bigger, if you have to have a head then it is great but that was not a deal breaker over a 22. For me to go bigger the boat needs to be comfortable for a family of 4 as a cruiser and be a fishing day tripper with friends/family again for a party of 4. Everyone needs a comfortable seat out of the weather and the boat still needs to balance out. This application is a struggle for me with the 22 and doesn’t look much better on a 25. I would have a hard time paying an extra 30K to get a head and some extra storage.

Since we pulled out the tape measure in a few previous posts. How about hanging the OB on an Armstrong bracket? Transform the motor well into deck space / fishbox / storage. Extend the cabin and build a U shaped dinette on the port side…

Wow, this got a lot of hits in the time it took me to type this up…. with pictures of a U shaped dinette.
Regards,
Dave

[Leo Smith]

The original 25' C-dory "cruise ships" featured a wide dinette on the port side with a large head compartment located between the dinette and the aft bulkhead. The aisle space between the dinette if off-centered from the center-line of the boat, with the helm seat and galley to starboard. Perhaps Roger or Mike could provide you with dimensions of their interiors. After viewing the interior of TyBoo, I thought it was a better interior arrangement than the 25' interiors built by the Reynolds family. Just my 2 cents.
Best regards,
Leo

[JamesTXSD]

While I'm not in the market for another boat, Brian from Seven Please brings up something that could be addressed on most boats this size: ergonomic seating. The flat bench seats in the 25 are too long in the seat, too short on the back. I understand that having a dinette that can be made into a berth is a great sales tool... and something that most folks won't use. ("Look, it sleeps 4. We can take Bob and Marie on trips with us!") BUT, a comfortable place to sit WILL be used every time the boat goes out. I like the idea of a U-shape dinette with a table that can slide out into the aisle... not an uncommon use on RVs, especially Class Bs.

And while we're on the subject of RVs, make the cruising boat more like an RV: put the water switch where you USE the water, not on the front panel. Put bright lighting over the galley and dinette. Make the showerhead functional (not a toilet sprayer) with a decent flow blocking switch so the water doesn't go cold between sprays. Make the head door NOT leak when using the shower. Put the Wallas (or other stove top) to the side or mounted back further to better utilize the limited counter space. Put a pull-out faucet/sprayer on the sink. Better storage (racks) under the galley. A smaller water heater to better utilize storage. Make an inverter a factory option. Make the boat "turn key" for cruising, and those who want to cruise will be drawn to the boat.

Consider a "fishing option" for those who don't need all the cruising amenities.

Most of the above suggestions would cost very little if designed into the boat. I truly appreciate the fact that you are soliciting ideas from the folks who would be your target market.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[chromer]

You should have some drawings of this 25 by the SBS. See if you get someone to smack down 70k.

[Aurelia]

I like most of the comments and agree with a larger table although the 3 person asymmetrical one in our 25 works well for us and that was a consideration in buying and swaying us away from the Tomcat. Most owners spend lots of time at that table so don't underestimate the importance. Folding or sliding tricks to add room would be more than welcome as long as it stays fast and simple.

The number of people who actually expect to shower in the boat may be quite low so don't get too carried away with oversizing the space. Offer lots of different toilet options including a nice porta-pottie with pumpout freeing up more space for other tankage or storage. I like the more water option as we only get about 16 usable gallons from ours and even 5 more would make enough difference to those who like to anchor most of the time. Smaller water heater would be great and I think a 3-4 gallon would be ideal. Our boat is setup for a 1000 watt honda to power everything but I already had it so I shot for that goal. A 2000 watt unit would be a better standard perhaps. Consider generator storage options/brackets as lots of folks end up needing some options there and position the shore power connection in a smart place.

I would also encourage a wrap around roof railing nearer to the front/side edges for easy tie down of gear and reach.

Solar options are a great idea and we love our system.

Single motor direction is a good decision and thats coming from a twin owner.

[jennykatz]

Les I think you are on the right track 5000lb boat ,eng,trailer weight, if doable will sell a lot of boats . People will not need to get a f350 or so to move their boats .
single eng with kicker seems like it will work for most buyers if not they can buy a c-25 or venture 26 .
like you said you are not builing a c25 clone .
The 4 place dinette is a big issue that must be addressed I think slide out seats or hinged seats and table would do the trick (look at some RV sites) As far as a head (toilet) goes give the customer a choice airhead ,porta potti, or marine head with bottom storage 5-6 gallons like some of the c-25's with fresh water pump.

Using some of the similar molds could be a win win for you and consumer's keep price under 100k.
trailer for a 5000lb boat would not have to cost more then $4500 probably less and a 135-150 hp at $15000-16000sounds about right . Elec there again could be $2000-????????
So if boat is $70k you could get into the 90k -100k I think you would have a winner .

[tomherrick]

[Les Lampman]

Thanks Jerry, I really appreciate your input!

[Les Lampman]

[Les Lampman]

[Les Lampman]

[Grumpy]

Les,

Sounds like a great idea and I am sure you will get all the suggestions/permutations possible from this very knowledgeable group.

There is nothing magic about the number 25. As you well know our "245" is actually 30 ft overall and that is what you pay for in moorage and have to trailer, park, store etc.

I understand the cost/weight/ft argument as a build cost, but if you are looking for a couple of inches here and there for "convenience(s)" I'm sure you are not stuck on 25ft. and maybe the answer is 26.

Total operating cost is becoming a bigger factor than in the past so you are right on the ball in keeping up the high quality to retain resale value and keeping the weight low to reduce running/towing costs.

Having just "unloaded" ours, I am willing to bet that very few of us have any idea of the actual weight that we add when given the option of "extra" space. Seems like we fill up the spare room at home when we empty the boat or RV
Anyone figure out the added weight/cost of a full blackwater tank (That should start some discussion).

Merv

[Les Lampman]