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Les Lampman
Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 779
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
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 Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| C-Hawk wrote: | Les-
Is it possible to rig the M215 with twin engines.
Thanks for all of your information. |
Hi Roger,
The short answer is "no". I copied the following from a response I made on another thread so apologies to those that have read it already.
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Making design decisions on a boat is really a blend of practicalities and most everyone knows full well that a boat (and most other things in life!) is one floating set of compromises. In looking at the Marinaut I can see that choosing to have the motorwell accommodate twins would have impacted:
- the space allocated for batteries
- the space allocated for aux fuel tanks
- the space allocated for aft storage
- the dash (more space needed for more gauges)
- The helm seating area, in particular the space needed for twin engine controls.
- the space for a larger swim platform with hand rails.
It would have also impacted the basic premise of what one thinks the boat is, or is to be, at the design stage. For instance, when you look at the transom area of the Marinaut there's not much doubt that water will stay outside the boat. Not only is there a full height forward motorwell bulkhead but the horizontal area (deck) around the motorwell is fully enclosed. There's not much volume in the single motor well so even a breaking wave dumping in it is not going to affect the boat very much.
Does that make a big difference? I don't know. From a practical standpoint you don't hear a lot about C-Dory 22's getting pooped but there's something to be said for what a transom like the Marinaut has lends to the psychology of perceived safety (which means comfort to many folks).
It also happens to look good (to my eye) and I'm sure that played a part as well.
In the long run I think it was mostly about simplicity (since several things on the boat would have to be quite different for twins), aesthetics, and the fact that modern outboards are very reliable (a space for a "kicker" was designed in from the start for back up).
Market wise, except for larger boats that need the horsepower, most outboard powered boats are single engine. In fact this is also true of the C-Dory 22. Although there are quite a few twin engine CD22s this is a bit of an anomaly in general (for this size boat) and percentage-wise most CD22 are singles.
From a technical perspective it's not proven that twin engines are safer or superior to a single engine; it's still very much a personal and subjective choice (except for cats and boats that need more horsepower than one engine can provide). For every situation where twins would win the day an opposite situation for a single engine being the better choice can be presented. It's really a no-win argument from a technical (objective) viewpoint. [Most serious long-range motor cruisers are single engine (many with a back up system); it's been shown for years that it's the most efficient way to go from a cost and maintenance perspective.]
The single engine only design of the Marinaut provides room for aux tanks (built-in or portable), or room to store fenders and lines and other items, and gives the cockpit a much larger "feel". It also meant the helm space could be more compact and along with no port side forward cabin bulkhead that lends the cabin a more open feel. With a couple of (throwable type) cushions the space to either side of the motorwell proves a couple of nice seats; that area also provides space to install a bait well if desired. All those things would have had to have been given up if the transom were opened up for twins.
Ultimately you take your best thoughts about how the boat will be used, who will use it, and what things you want to incorporate into the boat and make your best decision (as a designer) as to what will fit the best and how you can meet the most expectations. I think when most folks see the open space under the motorwell area in the Marinaut if you then asked them if they'd trade that space for the ability to have twin engines the answer would typically be "no". Of course that wouldn't be everyone's answer but I do personally feel after all the CD22s we've sold and rigged and repowered that at the end of the day it's not really a significant consideration for most folks. And most will fit an auxiliary bracket on the port side and carry a kicker for fishing and/or backup use.
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Did we get it right for everyone? I don't think so. But the impact of designing the transom and helm to accept twins was just too great and took away too much of what was good for the majority of the folks that are likely to purchase the M215.
Thanks for the question!
Les
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Les
www.marinautboats.com |
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C-Nile
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 638
City/Region: Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Hello Roger,
My wife and I have ordered Marinaut Boat Company Hull #1. We decided to have a Honda BF115 O/B as the main engine, and will install a 9.8 HP Tohatsu kicker motor with: a) 20-inch long shaft, b) electric start, c) Garelick Offshore 71090/71091 o/b bracket, d) EZ Troll, and e) Troll Master (wired to cabin). This will enable us to control the kicker from the cabin, while traveling along at approximately 5.2 knots. So really, we have two engines that can be controlled from the helm.
When we first had our CD 16 Cruiser with a Suzuki O/B, we had 5 failures on the water. Our kicker motor got us home four of those times. In New England, there is a lot of debris in the water. One could see a situation where with two engines in the water, one could easily spin both props on a log or large branch. Having a kicker stored out of the water truly gives us comfort that we have a second engine to get us home in emergencies. Lastly, we like gunkholing. There were times we got in so deep that we could not operate the main engine. A kicker can be set to shallow water operation, and even in the Marinaut, I believe we will only need 12 inches of water to operate the motor. At any rate, this is what I think it will do. I'll report back to the group on shallow water operation with a kicker, if anyone is interested, when we receive the boat.
Thanks!
Rich
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Marinaut 215 - "Betty Ann" Sept-2011
CD 16 Cruiser "C-Nile" Sold 06/2011 |
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Chester
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1176
City/Region: home
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sold to lovely couple
Photos: Chester
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| C-Hawk wrote: | Les-
Is it possible to rig the M215 with twin engines.
Thanks for all of your information. |
I like the twins on our 22 a lot.
I would trade them for a single+kicker for the advantages of the M215 transom setup though. |
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C-Nile
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 638
City/Region: Connecticut
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2012
Vessel Name: Betty Ann
Photos: C-Nile
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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C-Hawk,
You are certainly right on the Marinaut transom set-up. Not having fuel tanks under the transom (the two saddle fuel tanks are in the gunnels) and the height of the space underneath the splashwell frees enormous space for storage. We fell in love with its design from the onset.
Rich |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20813
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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I recommend that everyone take a few minutes to look at the Marinaut 215 web site. Pay some special attention to the "history" links, and year by year development of the hull lines and molds. For those who have never been involved with boat building it shows the painstaking care which goes into making a good set of molds. In todays world many boats are made by CAD and then a computer driven router in foam which forms the new plug for the mold. I like the "old fashioned way"....
My own experience with outboards is that they are extremely reliable and I feel very comfortable with one, but being conservative, I do carry a kicker of some sort. (Even a dinghy motor will do)..
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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C-Hawk
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2146
City/Region: Carpinteria / Channel Islands
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Hawk
Photos: C-Hawk
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ya'll,
I also liked the twin setup I had on my first CD22. I went with a single and kicker for my current CD22 and wish I'd have stayed with the twins. --- But thats a story in itself.
I like the saddle tanks on the M215, but would also have the extra tanks. I like to have long range capabilities so I can access the Islands in my area-- Channel Islands of the Santa Barbara Channel.
Nice looking boat.
_________________
Roger
2002- CD22- "Fishtales" returned to factory 2008
2008- CD22- "C-Hawk" Sold
KJ6VVB
A Brat I am, At sea I be
God is Great, Beer is Good.... and People are Crazy |
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