View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Les Lampman Dealer
Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 779 City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
|
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Tim,
I don't believe you have a "transmission" problem per se. In a sense the outboard doesn't have a transmission as we know it from vehicles. There's just a pinon gear attached the the end of the vertical drive shaft which drives two larger bevel gears. Continuously I might add, so the pinion and both bevel gears are spinning any time the engine is running.
Between the bevel gears is a clutch dog. It's the thing that you're actually moving with the gear shift lever. On each end of the clutch dog there are large square-shaped lugs that engage large square-shaped lugs that are on the inner face of each large bevel gear. Slide the clutch dog to one end and it engages the pawls (or dogs) on one of the bevel gears (that's the "clunk" you hear when shifting), slide it the opposite end (with the gear shift lever) and it engages the other bevel gear. It's really a very simple and rather crude system...but it works.
So...
The two problems are related (based on the two videos). The problem isn't the lower unit (most likely) but that your shift cable (or mechanism) is out of adjustment. I've come to this conclusion based on your comment that it you were in reverse before shut down you wouldn't get the clicking in the first video (that means that the shift throw isn't even both directions). The more telling thing is the second video which clearly shows that the clutch dogs are skipping past each other in forward gear. The prop's rpm does not increase as it should with engine rpm in your video.
The most likely scenario is that normal wear in the remote or the cable is not giving you the same amount of movement for both directions. Put another way...when the remote is in neutral the engine isn't in true neutral. Typically this is just an adjustment of the cable ends (usually at the motor end but maybe also inside the remote).
When you move the shift lever out of neutral you should have to move the shift level the same distance (same degree of rotation) going to reverse or forward to start just hearing the "ticking" of the clutch dogs. I'm betting that's not the case in your situation.
Les _________________ Les
www.marinautboats.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 542 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
|
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
VERY helpful, Les. Particularly since I asked the service manager at Jacobsen's (who normally work on the boat when I can't do it myself) to watch my videos, and he came to exactly the same conclusion. This weekend, I'll try to adjust this myself.
Wish me luck! _________________ Timothy R. R. Flanagan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 542 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
|
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Shifter cable has been adjusted. There's quite a bit of "play" in the entire system. I took apart the throttle control head, and that lever returns to two different "neutral" positions depending upon whether you're coming from forward or reverse. About 1/8" difference. By the time the cable gets pushed or pulled all the way back at the transom, the difference is closer to half an inch. Heck, maybe more. You can see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYB3Nt7P2Sg
But I'm not sure there's actually anything wrong with it, other than it being a bit out of adjustment. When I adjusted the cable's effective length (by twisting the fitting where the cable housing enters the motor enclosure, just like adjusting brak eand shifter cables on a bicycle), so that the two neutral positions were more or less centered on the true neutral position, the trouble went away.
Protection against dropping tools and fasteners in the water:
The adjustment has been made. See the shiny newly exposed threads on the lower cable? That's what I changed.
Let me clarify...the weird ratchety clicking went away; the symptom I documented in the videos. But the high-RPM rattle is exactly the same as it has been since I noticed it in the fall.
So, now I'm thinking this high-speed rattle is still the "knocking" combustion issue we discussed earlier, maybe due to bad fuel. Or it might be some kind of exhaust issue. It actually sounds a lot like a motorcycle with a muffler that's not quite doing the job. The rhythm is just the same, but the individual exhaust events are just a bit "sharper" sounding than normal. Is that a possibility, I wonder?
In any case, I have decided to...go cruising. The motor starts and runs fine. It goes as fast as it should, and the boat runs as fast as it should in each RPM range. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
digger
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 496 City/Region: Spokane
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: C-Sik
Photos: Snoopy-C
|
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Still haven't changed the plugs? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 542 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
|
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
digger wrote: | Still haven't changed the plugs? |
No, but after yesterday's experiment I'm now confident that I can do this with the boat in the water, so I might as well buy a set and bring them along. The plugs in it now were new one year and 50 hours ago...I didn't use the boat much last summer with my knee injury/surgery. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 542 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
|
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow...what a frustrating thread. The original poster, "timflan", never came back to explain what was wrong with his engine. BASTARD! I'm having exactly the same symptoms now with exactly the same engine, and this thread is like a story without a conclusion. Sad.
So I've re-read my logs for that entire summer, and...it's entirely unclear what fixed the problem! Jacobsen's serviced the engine and discovered a bad thermostat, but my notes say "not a night-and-day difference". On the other hand, I stop writing about the rattling from that point on. So was it fixed, or did I just become accustomed to a "new normal"? I really don't know.
OK, so this time I'm going to start with the easy stuff, same as before: Replace the old fuel, and if that doesn't fix it, I'll change the spark plugs. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
South of Heaven
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 1459 City/Region: Sharon
State or Province: MA
Photos: Blue Water
|
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
timflan wrote: | Wow...what a frustrating thread. The original poster, "timflan", never came back to explain what was wrong with his engine. BASTARD! I'm having exactly the same symptoms now with exactly the same engine, and this thread is like a story without a conclusion. Sad.
So I've re-read my logs for that entire summer, and...it's entirely unclear what fixed the problem! Jacobsen's serviced the engine and discovered a bad thermostat, but my notes say "not a night-and-day difference". On the other hand, I stop writing about the rattling from that point on. So was it fixed, or did I just become accustomed to a "new normal"? I really don't know.
OK, so this time I'm going to start with the easy stuff, same as before: Replace the old fuel, and if that doesn't fix it, I'll change the spark plugs. |
What else has happened to you in the last 7 years!? _________________ <><><> Jason <><><>
2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht (Twin 385 Crusaders) (SOLD 6/20)
2000 Camano 31 Troll (Volvo TAMD41p) (SOLD 2/19)
2007 C Dory 25' Cruiser (200 hp Suzuki, sold 7/17)
2003 C Dory 19' Angler (80 hp Yamaha, sold 7/16)
1995 C Dory 16' Angler (40 hp Yamaha, sold 2/16) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8553 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
|
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We had a similar problem recently and took a video of the prop turning (by hand). Two people suggested a bent shaft based on the video. Turned out to be within specs but it's a thought. _________________
DAYDREAM - CD25 Cruiser
CRABBY LOU - CD16 Angler (sold 2020)
Pat & Patty Anderson, C-Brat #62!
http://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 542 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let's be clear, I only care about the "rattling at high RPMs" problem right now. The original problem, not the red herrings that followed. Legmitimate though those problems might be.
OK, the thermostat LOOKS fine. Fully cold, it's fully closed.
And the spark plugs look fine, but my log indicates they have been in there since 2014, so I'll replace them despite low engine hours since then (<75 hours). BTW no jokes about me showing 3 not 4 plugs. I'd have to remove the engine cowling to get at the 4th one. I'll do that once I have the new ones in hand.
One fuel tank is nearly full of old fuel, the other is nearly empty. I'll siphon the low tank and fill it with 100% new fuel for testing, after spark plug change. Then I can do an A/B test with the two tanks to see what difference that makes. I want this story to have a coherent conclusion. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Moxieabs
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 208 City/Region: Cape Neddick
State or Province: ME
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Widget
Photos: Widget
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just a thought, my Honda developed a "clicking/rattle" only at higher RPMs & turned out to be play in the rear cowling latch. _________________ Moxieabs on WIDGET |
|
Back to top |
|
|
timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 542 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Old Fuel is the correct answer.
Engine's running great with new fuel.
Also HEET fuel additive ("HEETŪ Gas-Line Antifreeze - Removes Water") helps incorporate the water in the fuel, so even the old fuel runs much better. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7883 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|