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docking blues with twins
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c-ness



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 521
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 24 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C-weetness
Photos: C-weetness
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:24 pm    Post subject: docking blues with twins Reply with quote

Ok, I know that moving about the marina with twins on our TC24 is much easier. It's a blast to be able to spin the boat, but I'm still not comfortable with bringing the boat to the dock. I guess that I had simply adjusted fully to the single engine maneuvers. The twins add a lot of possibilities, but I'm still in the learning curve. I practiced at the slip today and made multiple errors deciding which engine to engage and when. Nothing fatal but an 'interesting' process. Any thoughts or tips?
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Socrateur



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 244
City/Region: Danville
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Skipper
Photos: Sea Skipper
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get rid of one motor, problem solved. Smile
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To really get a feel for what the maneuvering is with twins, practice steering without using the steering wheel. As you're going forward, if you want to turn left, you do so by decreasing left throttle or increasing right throttle. You already know how to rotate by using opposite throttle and forward/reverse, so all your maneuvering is based on that.

Coming into the dock can be done similar as with a single, but instead of using both throttles, you can use the throttle away from the dock with that engine in reverse to pull the boat in. Use the throttle closest to the dock to help with the forward/reverse motion of the boat (applied less than the outside throttle).

It's a learned skill. On a boat like the TomCat, with the motors widely spaced, it is a great help in slow speed maneuvering.

Toss a floating cushion out when in open water and practice bringing the boat to the cushion... bow, stern, and either side of the boat. It soon becomes second nature.

Have fun and keep us posted.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
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starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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City/Region: marysville
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would practice with just the forward and reverse without touching the throttles. when we got the 27 last year I was not use to the two level set ups. one throttle and one gear selection. I go the two mixed up more then once and almost pulled poor Susan off the dock. I went back to basics and only used the gear at the dock and just let the engine idle. this makes you think and plan a lot more and at the end of the day a better driver.
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matt_unique



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject: Twins Reply with quote

The most significant difference I learned docking Napoleon was the fact that the bow walks at precisely the same velocity as the stern while reversing. With a monohull you approach the dock at an angle because the stern walks a greater distance compared to the bow when reversing. For example - with a monohull if you approach the dock and reverse engines with your bow 2' away and the stern 4' away both will arrive at the dock at the same time. If you try this with your Tomcat the bow will contact the dock long before the stern because the sponsons act like keels.

I approach the dock perfectly parallel, and then reverse both engines while turning into the dock. I turn my engines in the opposite direction once I get good 'walk' velocity going to null the movement, make a soft landing, and to get my props away from pylons for example. I think you will find good results if you give this a try.

We all know the many factors and vectors involved with current, wind, available real-estate to make a parallel approach, etc. Forget about that for now (if you can). I will counter steer with my props as I'm approaching the dock if I have to make a tight turn to get into parallel position but forget about this for now. You can make a perfect landing in your Tomcat with nothing but both forward, both reverse, and helm corrections.

Good luck - nothing like the feeling of a great docking!

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Former owner of Napoleon (Tomcat) Hull #65 w/Counter Rotating Suzuki 150's.
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starcrafttom



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt makes a good point. treat it like a single running both engines the same way. also do you have a steering whell knob? if not get one. best thing in the world for docking.
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Matt Gurnsey
Dealer


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
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City/Region: Port Orchard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's tip- you'll look weird doing it, but it may help.

Hang you arms straight down at your side. Now, bedn at the elbow until your hands are in fron t of you. Keep your elbows against your side.

Now turn left. Your right hand goes forward, and the left back. Turn right and the opposit happens. That hand movement is what you're doing with the clutches when docking. Thing of how you want the boat to pivot, and move your hands accordingly.

Now the advanced- Want the pivot to be slower, use just one engine. If you want the pivot to be more forward, use just the engine that will push forward in the direction you want.

Want the pivot to slow the boat down, use just the engine that will be in reverse.

And as you've been doing- practice, practice, practice.

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Matt Gurnsey
Kitsap Marina
www.kitsapmarina.com
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matt_unique



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 1881
City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:54 pm    Post subject: Hmmm Reply with quote

I don't know Matt, this sounds an awful lot like directions to do the Robot. Are you sure you're talking about boats? Laughing
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Doryman



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 3807
City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
Photos: Lori Ann
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the issues that you will have to learn to deal with is that, unlike an automobile, the steering does not return to center of its own volition. I find that I frequently need to look back to see if the motors are straight, otherwise my throttle steering will be messed up. Most of the time I maneuver solely with the two throttles, but at the very end I often try to kick the stern over with my spinner knob. If I have to use the throttles after that, leaving the motors at an angle can produce undesirable behavior!

Warren

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M/V Lori Ann
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other item to be aware of with the Tom Cat, is how your engines are set up. Many cats are set up opposite to the"normal" of twin screw boats, and thus the prop walk is opposite. Some of the Tom Cats have only right rotation engines, and not counter rotating. So check what set up you have. I normally dock with only one engine, but that is because it is shoal near my seawall/dock, so I use only the outside engine. Works fine--but I also dock very slowly--and basically use the engines as rudders until the very last moment when I pull the stern in toward the dock.

As Matt noted, the Cat hulls act as keels.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
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Matt Gurnsey
Dealer


Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 1532
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
Photos: Kitsap Marina
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmm Reply with quote

matt_unique wrote:
I don't know Matt, this sounds an awful lot like directions to do the Robot. Are you sure you're talking about boats? Laughing


Well, I believe in using my skills in as many areas as possible... Laughing
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c-ness



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 521
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 24 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C-weetness
Photos: C-weetness
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the advice. I've learned much. Matt, I too have learned the hard way that rotating the stern to the dock yields a different result in the tomcat. I'll keep practicing and hope to master the ability to spin parallel to the dock in the tight slip where I'm moored so that I can dock parallel. In the meantime, I'll try to master the 'robot' move. Penny will be amazed that I'm dancing again...
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Gurnsey wrote:
Here's tip- you'll look weird doing it, but it may help.
Hang you arms straight down at your side. Now, bedn at the elbow until your hands are in fron t of you. Keep your elbows against your side.

Now turn left. Your right hand goes forward, and the left back. Turn right and the opposit happens. That hand movement is what you're doing with the clutches when docking. Thing of how you want the boat to pivot, and move your hands accordingly.

Now the advanced- Want the pivot to be slower, use just one engine. If you want the pivot to be more forward, use just the engine that will push forward in the direction you want.

Want the pivot to slow the boat down, use just the engine that will be in reverse.

And as you've been doing- practice, practice, practice.


c-ness,

Matt just gave you the best advice so far for someone new to twins. Here's the next best. Once you enter the harbor, make sure the OB's are pointed straight down the center. Then, like a guy told me when I was first starting with the twins, "KEEP YOU HANDS OFF THAT WHEEL, SONNY, Or somebody's gonna have to come over there and break 'em for you"

Do the "robot" if that's what it takes. That makes it easy to remember.

Here's my approach. Come into the dock planning on an arc approaching, close (3-4 feet is close enough) and then turn away, continuing the arc. After the boat is pointing away from the dock, bring both engines into reverse, backing toward the dock, minimal momentum. at about 1 foot from the aft corner touching the dock, put the outboard (engine on the side away from the dock), into forward. Hold the dock side engine in reverse and your boat will twist right up to the dock. Make's it look like you have a bow thruster. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Take heart, it comes easy with some practice, but works smooth as glass after a while just don't forget "KEEP YOU HANDS OFF THAT WHEEL, SONNY, Or somebody's gonna have to come over there and break 'em for you"

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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c-ness



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 521
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 24 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C-weetness
Photos: C-weetness
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took the TC24 out today for a little practice in docking. I discovered that I can spin while moving in reverse, spin while moving forward, spin in ways that I never thought I could spin. I wanted to spin in place,however. But it was practice! Beautiful day. Had to shut down a bit early because the starboard engine suddenly quit. Drat! We had to limp home on the port engine [glad we had two!!!]. I wonder what this will cost. Just as I was getting used to twins, I had to dock with a single. It wasn't pretty, but it worked. We came back to the boat later in the day and enjoyed an adult beverage as the sun moved lower in the sky.
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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best advice came from a dredge captain I know well and what he says applies to both single engine boats and twins. His wise advice is to never come into the dock any faster than you can afford. I live by it.....
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