deck Mounted Anchor Locker Hatch

[Peter_BDA]

Hey all,

Anyone every put in a deck mounted anchor hatch leading to the anchor locker so you can retrieve/stow your anchor???

Thinking about it......

Thanks
Peter
Bermuda

[Sea Wolf]

Peter-

Might take a pretty big hatch depending on which type of anchor and size you select. And the C-Dory is fairly small up there, too.

Personally, I prefer a windlass and a pushbutton switch, both for convenience and safety (not having to go up on the bow to retrieve or launch in heavy weather.)

A really good, totally waterproof hatch would cost about half as much as a windlass, if the discussion here last week was correct.

You'd also lose some of the room in the v-berth.

Joe.

[breausaw]

Why?

If you plan on pulling the anchor by hand (with 1/2” line it’s not hard), just pile the line and chain on deck tell you get back to port than feed it down the deck pipe to the first mate. If you have 25’ to 30’ of chain it will hold your line in place in the roughest seas. We have been out for days in nasty stuff and just pile the line and chain on the bow, it’s not in the way and is ready to deploy. The chain really holds the line in place and doesn’t scratch up the deck or anything, simple.

We use a buoy and ring to pull up the anchor, than just pull the line and chain in. In nice weather we like to anchor for the night on the outside, often in 75 to 100 feet, the buoy pulls up the anchor in less than 30 sec, line pulled in soon thereafter; no windless can do that.

[thataway]

I can see a lot of disadvantages, and no advantages for a deck access anchor locker. I assume that you have an anchor roller and hause pipe on the fordeck. I have used this combination for many years before we had cheap windlasses available--and often we would just feed the line into the anchor locker--or put in a basket or milk crate. (Don't trust the foredeck in some conditions I have been in). It would be very difficult to make a turely water tight hatch for this locker which would allow access.

I have owned boats with anchor lockers and they were a "pain".

[jacuthbert]

I have been reading about proper anchoring. One thing that has become clear is that I should never put in an anchor at the stern. I have been putting anchors over the aft starboard side for years using bell or river anchors. I understand that there is a potential problem of fouling the prop and of course putting a hole in the boat while bringing up this anchor.

To combat the fouling prop issue I put it over the side and cleat it with the end also tied to the rail. To combat busting the hull, when retrieving the anchor, I gauge when the anchor is nearing the bottom of the boat and lean out far enough to keep that from happening. I can see the potentials for disaster, including falling overboard.

I want to know about my boat swinging at anchor though and if it is a bad thing. One night I anchored with the windlass off the bow only. The wind came up very strong and I was up half the night worrying that the anchor would let loose. The boat was swinging in what seemed to be very wide arcs, but I guess it was just the rear end going one direction and then back. I did not have an aft anchor with me that night but I started carrying one after that. I keep it in a bucket in the cockpit now.

When anchoring for an hour or two at some lonely spot, I usually only put down the aft anchor, rather than fiddling around with the windlass and its huge anchor. I am a lake boater and usually I am in situation where the weather and the water are calm.

I would appreciate comments on my "swing" problem and as well as any other comments you might have about what I am doing.

Amanda

[JamesTXSD]

Hi Amanda,

Since these boats are relative light with a lot of windage above the waterline, they do tend to "sail" at anchor. If you are in a spot with plenty of swinging room, that's not issue. A couple ways to minimize that, after this word from our sponsor...

Do not use just the windlass to hold your boat at anchor. Be sure you pull some slack line from beyond the windlass and run that back to your bow cleat to tie off. If we are just stopping for lunch and there isn't much wind, I'll not take my own advice. BUT, if we are down for any length of time (like overnight) or with appreciable wind, tide or current, I tie off the line to the cleat to make sure there is no pressure on the windlass.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program...

If you are on a lake or other water with no tide or current, we will drop a second anchor off the stern to keep the boat from swinging so much. I don't put out much scope with a stern anchor - it's just something to slow the swinging movement. NOTE: do NOT do this in an area with protected sea grass, like the Florida Keys.

Another alternative is to put out two anchors off the bow, either Bahamian moor style or at enough of an angle so that each rode stops the swing of the other.

If you want to get really creative, you can tie a bridle to your anchor rode and cleat it off on a stern cleat to keep the boat at a slight angle to the wind. We used to do that with our trimaran, but that was more effective on a boat with a 20' beam.

My opinion is that there isn't any technique easier than dropping and retrieving the anchor with the windlass.

I am not a fan of anchoring from the stern. I have done it in the past with a sailboat to get some breeze down the companionway, but only in a guaranteed benign situation (no possibility of wave/wake/wind conditions potentially swamping the stern).

If there's room and you aren't concerned about keeping the swing tight (i.e. other boats who swing differently at anchor), enjoy the movement - I sleep great with a bit of movement to the boat.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Lucky Day]

[starcrafttom]

people die from anchoring by the stern in rivers or areas of high tidal flow. I would never do it except on a lake. boats of all sizes swing in the wind and tide . its just the way it is. if you are using enough rode and chain it should not be a problem. Here in the north west we know that the tide is going to swing us 360 over the course of the day. as long as everyone swings together with the tide its not a problem. If you are stern tied and everyone else swings chances are someone is going to swing into you.

The only time we stern tie is in a tight anchorage and then its to the shore never the bottom. Why is that better you ask. if you are stern anchored to the bottom and the tide comes up with the current pushing against the stern it going to push/pull you down as the stern line comes tight. this is how those foot ball players got sunk in Florida last year. they could not get thier anchor up so they tied off to the stern and tried to pull up the anchor with the boat motor. when the line got tight it sucked/pulled the back of the boat down to the water line and the waves come flooding in... down goes your boat. I have seen people do the same thing with small boats and stuck crab/ pots. never anchor your boat by the stern in a current or high wind.

now to stop your boat from swinging a lot try hanging a sea anchor or even a 5 gallon bucket from the stern on a 10 foot rope. this will slow your swing but not stop it.

[jacuthbert]

Dear Jim
Thank you so much for all the information. It is most helpful.

On tying to the bow cleat: I found that one out the hard way. I didn't do that one night and in the morning (naturally very cold and windy weather) I had to go use the little tool (so that's what that little wrench looking thing is for) to tighten the clutch on the windlass and generally fool around with it so it would haul in the anchor. Now I know that the bow cleat takes the pressure off the windlass.

So now I will use my bow anchor and not worry about the swing when there's plenty of room. I think "Lucky Day" is right: the boat really isn't swinging in an arc but is rather pivoting in place.

Thank you again for your expertise.

I am a graduate of Cal Poly. Their motto is "learn by doing". Now that I am 63, I am not such a fan of their motto.
Amanda

[jacuthbert]

Dear Tom
Thank you for the information. It makes alot of sense and I can understand the danger you speak of.

I am gaining experience with my CDory and have so far only taken it to lakes I am very familiar with (Patagonia Lake and Lake Powell). I do not feel ready for the ocean. If I was scared enough (doesn't take much) I would happily cut an anchor if I thought it might swamp me.

After reading the replies to my query, I think I can get into the "swing" of things now. I really like your idea of the bucket off the back - cheap, easy and effective.
Thanks again
Amanda

[thataway]

Lots of good information--as always. I often set a stern hook. It is "normal" to anchor bow and stern in S. Calif and off the coast of Mexico--one of the reasons is to keep the bow into the swell coming into the harbor.

Also you often put stern anchors on the beach --or near the beach to keep the stern in shoal water so you can step off the boat onto the beach or shallow water.

So, you cannot say "never anchor off the stern"--there are places (and more than I related there) where it is appropiate. You don't want to anchor only by the stern, especially in a situation where water may come over the transom. Several Football players lost their lives, and we have at least one boat in the gulf area which anchors by the stern, or trys to pull up an anchor and sinks. However in that case they had shortened up the scope--and were pulling almost directly. Be sure that you are using 7 to one scope on the anchor rode--and that is safe--again in calm water.

An anchor can be replaced--your life not. But also there are several cases where anchor balls and anchor lines got caught in the prop and a person was pulled overboard and drowned.

For the sailing--you can add weight to the chain--called a Kellett, and that will reduce the swing. a second anchor at the extent of the swing will help.

For the most part--don't worry about it--if you have the anchor well set it will hold. (anchoring, lower the anchor, then let out 3x the depth of water plus the boat's height from the water--then let the boat drift back until the anchor catches on the bottom. Let it sit for a few minutes, then let out twice as much line plus 1x depth and boat's height--7 to one scope--then slowly engage the engine in reverse. If the anchor is holding--then give it more power, in reverse to set the anchor. Take a look at the shore--and set up anchor "ranges"--you can do the same with the GPS after the anchor is set, and you let the boat ride forward to lie naturally to its rode.

[jacuthbert]

Thank you Thataway. Great information. I appreciate your expertise and wil make use of your experience.
Thanks again.
Amanda

[hardee]

Amanda,

It is so good to hear you asking about anchoring. Wasn't all that long ago you were asking about selling. Glad you came around, and proud of your efforts. Your lake boating lists some pretty impressive lakes --> Powell, for instance is a BIG lake and can offer some of the same challenges we face in the PNW regarding wind and waves.

Having good scope and ensuring the anchor is well set in the bottom are essential. When setting the anchor. (Like Dr Bob says) then go into reverse and give enough pull to tug the bow down some, making sure the anchor is not going to drag in the middle of the night or middle of a blow.

Good on ya'

Harvey
[b]SleepyC[/b

[jacuthbert]

Dear Harvey
Good to hear from someone who understands that I have come a long way with my CDory.
Previously when anchoring, I did not tug on the anchor after it seemed to be set. I guess I have been lucky. I will do that in future.
I am not so sure about this "scope" business. I do not have any equipment that tells me the depth of the lake so I cannot do the calculations as instructed.
The few times I have used the bow anchor I have let out enough rope until I judge the anchor has hit the bottom, then I let out an additional 5-10 feet. Then I climb out the hatch, grab the anchor rope and haul enough in to tie to the cleat. Then I try to get a good night's sleep, which of course I can't do if it is windy because the boat is swinging.
So now to combat all this I will reverse the boat to make sure the anchor is set, then go out and secure the rope to the cleat, then drop a 5 gallon bucket over the back end to slow the swing and hopefully have pleasant dreams.
I am really looking forward to meeting with my first CBrat group. They seem a really swell bunch. I can't wait to see their boats and the different things they have done with them. It will be great to see some quality workmanship and changes instead of my gum and ceiling wax approach.I am scheduled for Lake Powell in September.
Amanda

[JamesTXSD]

information is knowledge. If you do not have a depth finder, that would be a very useful addition to the boat. We use the depth sounder to not only get the depth, but to see the bottom contour before putting down the anchor.

"Scope" is VERY important for anchoring. The scope is the distance from the bottom up to the boat, including the distance from the water to the bow (where your anchor rode makes contact with the boat). The minimal amount of scope you would want to put out for a short stop in very benign conditions is 3 to 1. If you have determined the scope is 10 feet (7 foot of water depth + 3 feet from the water to the bow), then you need to put out at least 30 feet of chain and/or line on your anchor. (more about chain in a moment). Many people will use a 5 to 1 scope, I prefer a 7 to 1 for overnighting, more if I expect any weather.

To help determine how much rode you have put out, mark your anchor chain and line. I use a yellow bit of rescue tape on my chain at the 25 foot mark. We have 50' of chain on our rode, 200' of line beyond that. The line is marked in 25' increments with waterproof marker. Since I prefer to have some line at the roller (instead of chain) for overnighting (it's quieter that way), I am always putting out at least 50' of chain, even in shallow water. With the anchor set and 50' of chain keeping it on the bottom, the boat isn't going anywhere. The more scope you have out, the less likelihood the anchor will unset due to pull on the line... the better night's sleep you will get.

Thus, it is important to put out a LOT more than an extra 5 or 10 feet of line. 50 or 100 feet might be more appropriate, depending on the water depth. So, you can see why a depth sounder is important to help determine how much anchor rode to put out.

All of this is pretty easy by flipping a switch on the windlass instead of doing it by hand. As you bring in anchor rode, don't use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor - instead, slowing motor to the anchor as you pull in the rode with the windlass. When the boat is over the anchor (or nearly so) the anchor will unset easier and you use the windlass to pull the anchor back on deck. If you are careful as you raise the anchor, it can be done "hands off" the rode, all right from the windlass. I make it a point to pause as the anchor comes out of the water - both to see if the anchor has mud on it and to allow the chain to untwist. If the anchor is grubby, I drop it back in the water and pull it up and down a bit to dislodge the mud.

Anchoring is as much art as science. Different anchors for different bottoms, different anchoring techniques (as in how many anchors and where to set them) depending on conditions. When we first anchored at Lake Powell, we learned from others with experience there to run the bow up on the sand, set the bow anchor, and then run two lines to shore from the stern. At some places in the PNW, where the anchorage is tight due to other boats, we set the bow anchor and then tied a line to shore to keep the boat from swinging. Two anchors off the bow; a bow and stern anchor... all of these are good techniques to learn.

This forum is such a great place to learn and exchange ideas. Glad to see you using the boat and the forum!

Best wishes,
Jim B.