removing hot water heater

JamesTXSD · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:20 am Post subject:

Here's a less technical consideration regarding the factory installed water heater: it takes up the whole cabinet, but it works. If plugged in to shore power, it takes about 15 minutes to heat the 6 gallons. If we use the generator, it takes the same amount of time, but the Honda 2000 is revved up (a 1,000 watt generator wouldn't handle the load). Once heated, we have hot water for the day, depending on use. 8 hours after turning the water heater off, we still have warm (not hot) water; warm enough to shower if you don't turn on the cold water.

Having been an RVer for decades, I understand the reason for the 6 gallon water heater: it has been a standard in the RV industry (even though most larger RVs have now gone to 10 gallon heaters)... economy of scale. You buy what's readily available and affordable.

I think a 2 or 2.5 gallon water heater makes more sense in this size boat, because those of us who shower in there are not letting the water run while you shower. It would also make more sense to put the water heater near the shower and sink (under the galley cabinet) so you wouldn't waste water, getting the warm stuff to where it's needed. These were suggestions I made to the powers-that-be at the factory a couple of owners ago... you can see where that went.

I understand why some folks would prefer the storage space, especially if they don't shower in the boat. But, with a smaller water heater unit closer to where you use hot water, you'd have a win/win.

With any of these types of water heaters, there is a diminishing returns with the hot water if the tank/heating element can't keep up with water usage... if the water heater isn't plugged in and turned on, by the time you've used a good portion of the hot water, more cold has come into the tank and lowered that water temp. This is more noticeable with a smaller capacity tank; likewise with a heating element that takes longer to heat.

We won't be pulling the water heater (or Wallas) out of our boat - we're in the camp that uses the shower and hot water to wash dishes. It works, we like having hot water available. If our water heater were to die, I'd consider installing a smaller unit.

We've spent extended time cruising on our boat. Extra storage space could be put to use, no doubt; but we get along fine by making good use of the storage space we have. No easy task when you consider the cat gets the biggest storage cabinet (under the forward dinette seat). Wink

Just another consideration beyond heating elements, watts, and amps (oh, my!).

Best wishes,
Jim B.

toyman · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:39 am Post subject:

That is exactly what I did on Fan-C-Dory Jim - I put this http://personafile.com/American-Water-Heater-PROLine-Tiny-Titan-Residential-Electric-2.5-Gallon-P08009999515055.htm up against the hull side, back behind the sink, under the galley - in an area that was difficult to use for anything else. Sure hated wasting the water to get hot water to the galley/head. JMOO

localboy · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject:

Pat Anderson · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject:

Whew, I'm kind of glad that the hyper-technical dialog on thermodynamics between Dave and Roger has wound down and we are back a level mere mortals can comprehend!

We took out both the water heater and the Wallas, and have no regrets whatsoever.

As Jim points out in another thread, he really doesn't need cabin heat on the Tropical Tip except for maybe 10 crappy days in January or February...we need cabin heat here on the Upper Left Coast pretty much year round, even in the damn middle of July sometimemes...as a heater, I trust most sane people would agree that a dedicated forced air heater like the Webasto, with its heat vent placed down low where it belongs, kicks sand in the face of the Wallas combo cook-top / heaters. We sold the Wallas for $1,200 and the cost of the Webasto, purchased from Interstate and delivered to my door, was $960. Installation complete by Triton Marine was $977, since I lack David's ability to do any of it myself. So this upgrade - and it is a major upgrade - netted out costing us $737. Our cheap little Gasone butane stove, which we already had, is better for cooking to boot. It heats up and shuts down instantly and it is easier to finely control cooking temperatures. This was really a no-brainer.

Now, the water heater. This one I can see reasonable people disagreeing on, and I will not say I will never install some kind of water heater. We found a 120 volt ac water heater not very useful for us, and since I had to take it out anyway to replace the fresh water pump that was behind it, I just decided to leave it out. Since we almost never used it anyway, we sure have not missed it. If we are at a dock with shore power, there are always showers available. If we are anchored out, we can easily heat up water for a PTA bath or hair washing...with less wasted water to boot.

Still, an on-board water heater that was not 120 volt ac would be nice. Since nobody has talked about a diesel fired unit with a small tank and 12 volt pump or a 1 lb propane cylinder fired tankless water heater, I am assuming that these critters do not exist, at least at a reasonable cost (hey Dave, here is a niche you should scratch!).

Aurelia · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject:

There are 1lb propane tankless water heaters on the market but they are for outdoor use and I think there is a least a brat or two that run them in the cockpit. I would be all for it in a 22 but we already have the head and want to put it to good use. If there was an installible forced air heater that could also heat water and make sense for our boats, I would be first in line.

Here is an example of the propane, portable units

http://www.zodi.com/

starcrafttom · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject:

looking at that site I found this.

http://www.zodi.com/Consumer/zodihotstovetopshower.html

this might work as a on deck shower. It would be great in a fresh water lake.

Aurelia · Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject:

Got terribly unlucky and our new tank turned out to have a tiny leak in the lower tank itself that was sneaking water slowly and mysteriously onto the floor and into the carpet and pad. We thought it was condensation perhaps but I found it by digging in cabinets and a bright light. New tank is in now and I hope to have better luck with this one. No warranty coverage because of the non standard boat install.

Jack in Alaska · Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:04 am Post subject:

Aurelia........

I read your article on installing that little water heater. I was going to give you a heads-up on mine but the last piece from you told the story. After one day mine sprung a small leak internally but I have it in the crawl space in my house. No damage done other than a 100 mile trip to Home Depot to get another under warranty. The 2nd one is now 2 yrs. old and doing great.
I use mine as a initial heater on a real long hot water run. By the time the 2.5 gals is gone the main heater is sending plenty more.

Jack in Alaska

Aurelia · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject:

Guess what, second tank has developed a leak as well. Maybe I am just on the wrong track with this model. Now I have to tear it out and either replace it or leave it without. I still think the boat should have at least a small tank but I will not put a big 6 gal model back in that cabinet because the usable storage space we got is better than more hot water we don't really use. Guess how many showers were taken on the boat during our last 17 night trip. One.

Anyone have any favorite tanks in the 2-4 gal range? I am in the market.

Jack in Alaska · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject:

Aurelia.
Last week there was a brand new 4 gal hw htr. at a silent auction. Went for $50. Nothing wrong with it.
You are having hell with your system for sure.
Jack

Aurelia · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject:

The glass liner in the last tank was broken down by vibration and allowed the steel tank to corrode and start weeping near a weld. Avoid a glass lined tank for boat use. It was worth a try and too bad as it was a decent little tank otherwise.

Third times a charm. I just installed a 4 gallon Attwood marine model and was able to mount it rearward and to the side leaving usable room in the cabinet for other storage. I left the supply lines and power a little long so that it only takes minimal work and no mess to slide the tank back to access the element or other fittings easily. The valve for draining the tank is an easy reach without tools by just moving the seat cushion out of the way.

Pic here:

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Changes&id=2011_11_22_17_28_45&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php