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Fuel odor in cockpit!
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mcolp



Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 37
City/Region: Colorado Springs
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Allyson Marie
Photos: Allyson Marie
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject: Fuel odor in cockpit! Reply with quote

Hello All,

I have a Safety Issue with fuel odor in the cockpit. When I unsnap the cockpit cover after setting all night or anytime after I first remove the cockpit cover I can detect a strong odor of what seems to be stale gasoline. The reason I say stale gasoline is because when I unscrew the gas cap and take a whiff the gas in the tanks it smells slightly different. I’ve inspected all of the fuel hose connections, fuel vent hose connections, fuel tank selector connections and fuel fill hose connections for loose clamps or evidence of staining and I couldn’t find anything. None of the hoses were brittle and I couldn’t see any cracks. (Date of Mfr. 2006) I’m assuming that if one of the fuel tanks was leaking that stains would be visible around the bottom. Also, the fuel vents are not covered by the cover and the fuel odor is also present when the camper top is buttoned up over night.

I am at my wits end on this. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike
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sweet pea



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 167
City/Region: Gulfport
State or Province: MS
C-Dory Year: 1998
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sweet Pea (SOLD 10/2012)
Photos: Sweet Pea
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virtually all plastic gas tanks allow gas odors to permeate through the plastic. They are especially noticeable when in a closed in space. An odor isn't an indication of fumes being at a volatile level to cause ignition via a spark. It basically is just a nuisance odor. It is always a good idea to check for leaks on occasion.
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colobear



Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 2154
City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have the same model and year cruiser as do you. We do not notice any fuel odors. The only time I have ever noticed anything was a couple of days ago when I was laying down between the tanks running some new wiring. It was hot and I just got a very faint gas odor. Not being facetious but you may have a sensitive sense of smell. You might see if someone else, not pre-conditioned to smell it notices the odor.
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Sneaks



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 2020
City/Region: San Diego (Encinitas)
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: C-Brat
Photos: Jenny B and C-Brat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2005 Jenny B had that problem. It was a defect in the tank. I used to have closeup pictures but they (C-Dory) did have a problem where the bronze hose connection screwed into the tank. Some neanderthal screwed mine in and there was a crack in the fitting itself causing a small stain on the top of the tank at the fitting.

C-Dory replaced the tanks under warranty. You won't be so lucky I'm afraid.

I'll see if I can scare up the photos again

Don

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Sneaks



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 2020
City/Region: San Diego (Encinitas)
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: C-Brat
Photos: Jenny B and C-Brat
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the discussion.

Unfortunately the host site is no longer in existence so the stain photos are gone but if you read the posts, it should be clear enough to figure out the why.

Don
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4419
City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the primer bulb in good condition and not leaking, loose clamps or cracked?
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Captains Cat



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7313
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mentioned unsnapping the cockpit cover. Where are your tank vents? Are they by chance in a position where they could vent UNDER or near the cover when the cover is installed?

If so, since the gas "fumes" are heavier than air, they would collect in the cockpit under the cover.

JASITD

Charlie

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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good point and check the vents are open and not blocked by insects, debris, bad hose, etc

Last edited by BrentB on Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Will-C



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
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City/Region: Temple
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Will-C
Photos: Will-C
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:40 am    Post subject: Fuel odor in cockpit! Reply with quote

Hi,
You might consider pulling the fuel hose off the fuel filter that runs from your fuel selector valve to your fuel filter. Blowing in from the end you removed from the fuel filter and switching the fuel selector valve you can see if you have any issues with your fuel vents by switching the valve top each tank. Doing so you could use a mimimal amount of soapy water to check for leaks on top of your tanks by taping your fuel vents closed only for a temporiary basis so you can see what is going on looking for leaks on top of your tanks. Don't leave the vents taped up for too long. Don't smoke!
D.D.

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Wefings
Dealer


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
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City/Region: Panhandle
State or Province: FL
Photos: Cruise Ship #4
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you dont have the subfloor in your boat, you could also crank up the trailer jack, discombobulate the bilge pump [unhook the battery cables], and put the plug in and run the hose into the cockpit and see if you have any rainbow sheen on top of the water when an inch or two collects . If so you have a leak and more than just fumes .
Marc

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Jeff & Mimi



Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 33
City/Region: Vancouver
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Kristen Rose
Photos: Kristen Rose
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel odor in cockpit! Reply with quote

mcolp wrote:
Hello All,

I have a Safety Issue with fuel odor in the cockpit. When I unsnap the cockpit cover after setting all night or anytime after I first remove the cockpit cover I can detect a strong odor of what seems to be stale gasoline. The reason I say stale gasoline is because when I unscrew the gas cap and take a whiff the gas in the tanks it smells slightly different. I’ve inspected all of the fuel hose connections, fuel vent hose connections, fuel tank selector connections and fuel fill hose connections for loose clamps or evidence of staining and I couldn’t find anything. None of the hoses were brittle and I couldn’t see any cracks. (Date of Mfr. 2006) I’m assuming that if one of the fuel tanks was leaking that stains would be visible around the bottom. Also, the fuel vents are not covered by the cover and the fuel odor is also present when the camper top is buttoned up over night.

I am at my wits end on this. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike


We Had the same problem a number of years ago. We could smell gas but we couldn't find a leak. When we filled the tank's full we found that the fuel fill hose had came unlaminated. The hoses looked like new but when we fill the tanks up and after we let it set for 30 Minutes or os we could see the gas seeping out of the Starboard fill hose.

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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4419
City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
Photos: BrentB
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuel hose has multiple layers and it can decompose from the inside yet the outside is fine. An earlier posting on substandard hose made outside of US is worth reading
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Jeff & Mimi



Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 33
City/Region: Vancouver
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Kristen Rose
Photos: Kristen Rose
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B² wrote:
Fuel hose has multiple layers and it can decompose from the inside yet the outside is fine. An earlier posting on substandard hose made outside of US is worth reading


I remember the hose that we used was made in the U.S. and was coast Guard approved. It wasn't sub standard hose. Still After being used for just 3 years the hose started coming apart from the inside out.
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks
A fuel tank usually 3 connections: one for fuel filling, 2nd for a vent line and the third for fuel going to the motor. A leak can occur at any of these connections or a faulty tank. Is the tank a blown injection single piece or 2 piece heat welded unit? The bad gas smell has me puzzled and thought the primer pump holds gas and might be the issue.
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mcolp



Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 37
City/Region: Colorado Springs
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Allyson Marie
Photos: Allyson Marie
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Fuel Odor Issues Reply with quote

Hello All, Again,

I'd like to thank all of you that posted replies and recommendations regarding my fuel odor issues. I have some interesting findings that you may be interested in.
As it turns out, Moeller, who is the manufacturer of my tanks state very clearly on their website:

The question that has been raised by many of our customers is; what is fuel permeation? Permeation is the process by which smaller hydro
carbon molecules pass through the chemical chain of the cross-linked polyethylene. That permeation can be described as a “wicking effect”. Fuel
odor is the end result of this process; note this is a normal occurrence in plastic fuel tanks and should not be confused with fuel vapor.
Permeation Key Drivers:
1. Storage temperatures increase the permeation rate: for every 50 F / 10 C (degree(s)), the rate doubles.
2. Pressurized fuel tanks will increase the permeation rate.
3. Ethanol Blends will increase permeation rates.

In other words, some of the gasoline fumes that I'm smelling could very well be from the Moeller Cross-linked Polyethylene tanks that I have.

Hoses:
In addition, the fuel vent hoses on the Port side have no markings at all and appear to be soft and are easily movable even with the hose clamps as snug as I can get them.
The fuel vent hoses on the Starboard side are appropiately marked (A1 with the 2006 manufacturing date)
I am going to replace all of the fuel vent AND fuel supply hoses AND clamps.

Clamps: All of the clamps (Except for the large fuel fill hose clamps) appear to be
el cheapo types that are too large for the smaller hoses. The smaller hose clamps appear to be in a "D" shape instead of circular when they are tightened.
Consistant circular clamping forces appear to be nonexistent therefore I am replacing all of the clamps with the proper type and size of clamps.

In addition, I checked all of the hose connections on both tanks, vents and fuel tank selector valve for combustible (hydrocarbons) gases with a combustible gas detector reading in ppm and obtained readings from approx. 20-200 ppm of gasoline fumes. The LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) for gasoline is approx. 2100 ppm so it appears that the level of gas fumes that I smell are well below the threshold of LEL for gasoline.
I'll let you know how successful I am in eliminating or at least reducing the fumes that I'm smelling.

By the way, the fuel tank vents are OUTSIDE of the cockpit cover.

Once again, thanks for all of your comments and suggestions.

Mike


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