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cbadmin



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:59 pm    Post subject: Adding a Shore Power System Reply with quote

From: Lynn Marie (Original Message)
I'm thinking about putting a shore power set-up on the Lynn Marie but don't know where to start since I haven't got or even looked at a factory installation. Anybody have any good ideas of where to put the connection or maybe better what not to do? Since we have a Wallas I'm not sure how much we'll use it for heaters, radio, etc. but think that if I had a good system I would put it to use more often including to keep the batteries topped off.
What do you all think?

From: Fred
Tim,
I just finished putting shore power on by old tub. It was fairly easy. You need to buy a plug adapter for the boat to mount on the back of cabin, a charger, a breaker panel with a male disconnect with at least two circuits, connectors and wire. I bought my charger at www.batterystuff.com a dual pro set up for two batteries. This is a great site and has far superior chargers. If you are coming to Olympia I can show you my setup.

From: Les
Hi Tim,

Glad to hear you're keeping the AC system simple to start with. Ask TyBoo, when I get started on shore power I leave the soapbox under the desk and drag out the pulpit. Really, it's seems like it ought to be the simplest thing in the world but it's likely to be the most dangerous system we have on board our C-Dory's and to do it up right costs a lot of money for good components. It'd be a shame to get zapped for saving a few bucks.

Make sure you roll that extension cord up and stow it somewhere dry when not in use. If you leave it rigged up under the gunnel it will start to corrode inside and the salt laden air will allow salt to wick its way up the strands of wire (it'll be a pretty green though).

Use an extenison cord that is rated for at least twice the amps you're likely to need (or at least half again). If you're at the end of the dock and the voltage has dropped you'll be increasing the amperage you're drawing. Wattage = amps times volts and the thing you're running always needs the same watts so as the voltages drops the amps have to go up to provide the wattage the gadget is drawing. Clear as mud? Marinas are notorious for poor wiring and often you'll be lucky to get good power. They also often mess up the ground system pretty often so do the GFIC thing so everyone stays healthy. I like to use the plug-in power checkers, at least they give you some warning about the power conditions (reverse polarity, poor ground, etc) before you commit yourself.

Les

From: Lynn Marie
Les, Thanks for the input. My use for shore power should really be limited and I don't plan on leaving it hooked up for extended periods of time, mostly only on a very cold night when the old Wallas would otherwise be on all night. I do have a tester for checking out the dock system before hookup since you never know where polarity,ext. is on one dock to the next. No ground no connection, although I also don't like the idea of burning the stove all night either. My next systems to install are a carbon monoxide and smoke alarm which I plan on mounting to the equipment shelf over the v-berth entry. I'll sleep better even though the C-dory is about the only small boat I know of with a hatch big enough to exit buy. Just because it's there doesn't mean I want to use it as an escape hatch.
The section of wire on the boat will be tinned and as yet I haven't found a good marine grade GFCI to stick in the box but my plan is to solder terminals onto my wire prior to connection to the outlet. Plan is , if it's on the boat it sould last longer than I do. My other plan is to use 50 feet maximum cord length with 14-3 minimum wire size. I do still want to keep it afordable by cutting out some of the high dollar stuff where I can. Money saved here can then go to the anchor windlass someday.

Tim

From: LesLampman Sent: 11/21/2002 8:37 AM
I'll fly in the face of folklore here but soldering connections on a boat has been found to be the wrong thing to do. The soldered joints are much more prone to failure from vibration than a good crimped connection. It's also more difficult to discern the conditon of soldered joints and they rely on the skill of the person doing the soldering. All crimp connectors are not created equal ... I never use anything but Ancor brand and a good set of crimpers.

I'd still use a GFIC outlet, whether it was a marine unit or not.

BTW, I often leave the Wallas on all night; given the technology behind it (keeping truck cabs warm around the clock) and the fact that it vents overboard I feel quite comfortable doing so. I do leave a window open just a bit for oxygen supply (usually the window opposite the dock).

Les

From: Da_Nag™ Sent: 11/21/2002 9:25 AM
I agree with Les re the crimp vs. solder debate, and I'll add yet another safeguard I take. Whenever possible, I always use the heat-shrink connectors; they completely seal the wire, where corrosion is your biggest enemy. A heat gun works best for shrinking them up.

Also, while I don't disagree that Ancor makes quality connectors, I have found an alternative supplier that I'm very pleased with.

Terminal Town sells some very high quality connectors, at prices somewhat below what you would pay for Ancor at West Marine. Additionally, they have a wider selection of heat shrink connectors than either West Marine or BoatsUS carries local to me. Here's a direct link to their heat shrink connector page.

They also have some decent "How To" pages, and numerous types of cable ties and cable tie mounts. Worth a look before your next electrical project.

One final word re solder vs. crimp - if you must solder, and are not 100% sure of your skills, check out Solder Seals. They are virtually "dummy-proof", and give an excellent sealed solder connection.

Bill

From: LesLampman Sent: 12/1/2002 6:43 PM
Bill,

Thanks for the source on the crimped connectors. It's nice to have alternate vendors and links to other sources of information.

Les
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SEA3PO



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:46 pm    Post subject: Shore Power system Reply with quote

I just finished installing the system in SEA3PO...all from West Marine as Nathan (our son) works for them.... I used their made up 30 amp 25' long connector...the thru-hull has a cover door and is munted like the factory...in a super place... in that covered area on the right side of the boat where the wiring passes thru into the cabin... the factory left a perfect spot for that thru=hull to mount ...then the wiring enters under the sink where I mounted a Blue Sea breaker pannel that includes a reverse polarity circuit...from that I run to a two-bank charger, and a 20 amp AC wall plug (for the coffee pot etc.) it works neat...I looked at Roger King's boat Fishtales that has a factory installed system and tried to copy as best I could... And I solder terminals...then once connected I coat the entire connection with liquid electrical tape...available in colors at Home Depot....(green, black and white) I used Ancor brand wire as it is not copper but nickel
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Chuck S



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30 amp system is vast overkill on a boat this size. And the cable is massive to carry the 30 amps you'll never use.

Woodhead part number 59W47 "Watertite flip lid NEMA 5-15" 15A male receptacle will mount anywhere a 30 amp will mount and accepts a standard 15 amp extension cord, or you can get more exotic and fit a matching water tight female connector on the end of a standard cord.

You can carry 100' of 15 amp cord in less space than 20 feet of 30 amp (OK, almost).

You can use the same interior parts.

-- Chuck
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C-WEED



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:31 am    Post subject: Poor mans shore power Reply with quote

I just drove 1500 miles to look at a 2000 dory. I was bummed to find that "shore power" was just the built in battery charger. My question is this. Can I just carry a very good extension cord with surge breaker if I ever need to power any AC appliance? Do most docks use that goofy plug to prevent using a standard cord or is it a standard three prong?? Currently I have no special cord to plug into the bulkhead plug. It is a standard three prong on the boat.

Chris

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Captains Cat



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris, most marinas have a "goofy" recepticle. They are usually all the same though and there's an adapter you can get with a male goofy on it and a female normal on it. Well worth the money. Most marinas have a 30 amp breaker built into the pylon that has the power and water in it. You don't need a separate breaker. Won't hurt though.

Charlie

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Larry H



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris,

My 'shore power system' is a contractors grade #12 by 50 foot three wire 15amp cord. I run the outlet end thru the cable hole in the stb cockpit shelf and up behind the galley and out by the helm cabinet. I plug a 6 outlet strip with breaker into the end of the cord. When not in use, I roll up the end of the wire and stow it in the stb cockpit shelf.

This has been adequate to run a heater, tv, and battery charger. I made up adapters to convert from 30 amp twistlock(the most common marina plug size) and 20 amp twistlock(for Canada) to 15amp straight plug.

Unless you have some huge electric draw, the 15amp cord is adequate.

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C-WEED



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:54 pm    Post subject: Power cord Reply with quote

Gents, thanks for the info. I'll add the items to the things to get list.
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Sea Wolf



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

F150-
Larry has some great advice on a simple, uncomplicated 110 volt power system. He and I have identical systems and experiences with one exception.

I use a 6-plug receptacle (busbar) with a built in ground fault interruptor (GFI) set up, as this will prevent any power from going down the hot wire that doesn't come back up the common return, thus preventing a hot wire short from energizing the boat's grounding system or the water nearby. This provides some additional protection over a straight circuit breaker.

I particularly like this system for it's simplicity and the fact that it does not tie the boat's ground to the 110 volt ground, as required by most all boating regulations. The requirement is meant to minimize the risk of stray (potentially paralyzing) currents to any nearby swimmers, but the consequence of grounding the two systems together is extra galvanic corrosion for a number of reasons.

I'll take the simple approach. Joe.

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Sea Angel



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great discussion on the safety issues of shore power and some hardware items. If I may suggest the use of a 'flow form' type heat shrink tubing. It is stiffer than regular heat shrink but it seals the multistrand connections extremely well. we use this on our news microwave truck cables. It also helps give the connection some added strain relief. It comes in all sizes and any good electrical/electronic supplier can point you to it. It does come in different colors, also..

On an other note, I hope to finalize when to buy that CD25..... sooooon.

73's art
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Alyssa Jean



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art, the 73's obviously (to other hams) means you are an amatuer radidio operAtor. Welcome to the fray. VA is a long trip to the San Juans in WA but nothing is imposible.
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Captains Cat



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Art. Hope you join us in the Bay sometime.

Charlie K4KBA
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Sea Angel



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Thanks for welcome..fm ka1rx Reply with quote

Thanks Dave & Charlie.

The latest shipping date I have is 30 August fm the factory to Cutter in MD.

Yes, Charlie, I do hope to see you and the rest of the right coast gang on the Chesee' Bay, somewhere. I will try to let you know when 'Sea Angel' is wet.

I have been looking into possibilities of mounting my 2Mtr & HF gear on the CD25.... Lots of possibilities. Grounding will take some research as to where to place a possible ground plate, or to use the engines.

Do you think there is enough interest for a ham thread here?
Question

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Sea Wolf



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some additional details of how to install a simple shore power set up in a C-Dory. Some details may be redundant, but the text is a response to some questions posed by a Private Message, and editing would require complete revision. Thanks! Joe.

You asked about my shore power system, so here goes!

I have a bus bar multiple (6) outlet strip down on the seat shelf between the motor control unit and the outer hull. It is not screwed down, but simply lays there. The cord (either 6 or 8 ft) simply goes back along side the rest of the electrical lines under the galley and out into the cockpit up under the gunnel.

From there, a coiled, tool use type extension cord (10 ft) is plugged in when in use, and threaded up through the boarding handle above and into a 25 ft extension cord. The coiled section is very useful for the connection to a moving boat. The connection between these two can be pushed back under the gunnel for protection from the weather/salt water.

These all should be at 16 gauge or larger. At my covered berth, the 25 ft. section is lead up to the roof support posts and over to the nearest outlet. Bungee cords and Stanley plastic clothes pin style clamps hold it up above head level for safety.

The outlet strip is a Ground Fault Interrupted one. This means that it has an internal circuit that will shut off the power if any of the power flowing down the hot wire doesn't come back up the common return wire (i.e., finds another way to ground, such as through the ground wire, the boat's grounding system, you, the water, etc.). This protects you and the boat from shorts or other accidental groundings that are dangerous. This is in addition to a standard 15 amp circuit breaker function.

Permanently installed Shore Power set ups also have both these functions. They typically have 30 amp twist lock cords with two 15 amp circuits and outlets in the boat. Personally, I've never needed more than 15 amp service, with a 1600 watt (13.3 amp) heater being the largest consumer of power, and used on half power most of the time.

The position of the outlet strip in the boat is very convenient for most uses. I've never felt the need to extend it over to the dinette side, but it could be done.

Although I know you aren't planning on adding a battery charger, I'll add the following for information only.

What I also have is a very good 3-stage battery charger up in the v-berth next to the helm electronics panel. I have it permanently wired into the 6 gauge leads coming forward from the batteries to the windlass controls. This allows me to charge the batteries whenever the shore power is turned on whether in the slip, at home, or on the road "boaterhoming". The charge level function is fully automatic. The two new group 27 batteries added for the trolling motor under the forward dinette seat also are wired into the system at this point.

The GFI multiple outlet costs about $20-25, the two extensions cords about $12-15 each, totaling $45-55 for the basic system. This is a bit shy of the $875 or so for the factory set up. Works for me! HTH. Joe.
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Byrdman



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having been "JOLTED" a few times in life and knowing that water and electricity do not blend, I defered my entire system to Les @ E.Q. Harbor.. And, to date, ZERO problems. Thanks Les!
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flapbreaker



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've read through this thread and there's good information however I'm still confused as to what it takes to plug into dockside power? Is it as simple as buying the correct extension cord and plug that into a powerstrip with GFI capabilities?
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